Olympic weightlifting on hbo real sports

[Mike Corlett]

On June 19, the HBO series "Real Sports" is going to have a story on Holley Mangold. Typically, the show has reruns of its episodes throughout the week after it initially runs. Each story is typically about 12 minutes plus.
That may be the biggest "exposure" for US Olympic Weightlifting in the last 4 years.

[Randall Strossen]

On June 19, the HBO series "Real Sports" is going to have a story on Holley Mangold. Typically, the show has reruns of its episodes throughout the week after it initially runs. Each story is typically about 12 minutes plus.
That may be the biggest "exposure" for US Olympic Weightlifting in the last 4 years.

Mike -

When I read this, I thought, Who's Holley Mangold?, so I googled her and realized she's the other women's super (along with Sarah Robles) who made the US women's weightlifting team going to London. In fact, Holley is in the hunt for a medal according to a top-ranked article that stated: "Now she's going to London with the hope of becoming the first U.S. woman to win a medal in weightlifting since 2000, when the sport debuted."

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/may/18/sports/la-sp-oly-weighlifting-holley-mangold-20120521


This caught my eye because I didn't remember seeing her at the world championships, for example, so I checked her results from this year's national championships (which doubled as a secondary Olympic team qualifer) and saw that Holley was second to Sarah Robles (by 3 kg): Holley snatched 110 kg and cleaned and jerked 145 kg.

http://www.lifttilyadie.com/Results/12SrNats.htm

Just in case you don't follow women's weightlifting closely, the women's world record in the snatch is 148 and the world record in the clean and jerk is 187 kg. Holley's total of 255 would have put her in 8th place at the 2008 Olympics, but tipping the scale at about 162 kg, she'd have been second only to Olga Korobka in terms of body weight.

It might be time for Mark Henry to move over—his apparent successor might eat his lunch.

[Mike Corlett]

Yeah, the Media likes em Big. Doesn't matter if it is Football, Basketball, Strongman or Female Lifters. The Bigger, the Better.

But for Olympic Weightlifting, the exposure for the US is better than what we are getting now. Although 4 years ago, the US lifter/Supermom/political wife/cute gal had awfully good press. I am hoping that this time it is more about the lifting. We'll see in two weeks.

[Chris McCarthy]

Randy,

I think it says something about US weightlifting that you don't even know who Holley Mangold is.

I don't know what it says, but it says something. :;dk)

Chris

[Kim Wood]

the new "ESPN The Magazine" dated June, 11, 2012
has an article (page 44) on Holley Mangold.

[Randall Strossen]

Holley is about 5' 9" and 350 lb., right?

If so, those specs are a pretty good match for Paul Anderson—kind of puts things in perspective, maybe.

[Chris McCarthy]

Puts what into perspective ?

[Randall Strossen]

Yeah, the Media likes em Big. Doesn't matter if it is Football, Basketball, Strongman or Female Lifters. The Bigger, the Better.

But for Olympic Weightlifting, the exposure for the US is better than what we are getting now. Although 4 years ago, the US lifter/Supermom/political wife/cute gal had awfully good press. I am hoping that this time it is more about the lifting. We'll see in two weeks.


Mike -

Yes, Melanie Roach always got her makeup right, but she was also a good lifter and was the absolute hero(ine) of the US team at the 2007 World Weightlifting Championships.

Melanie was a great asset to the sport, I think, and could help people understand its benefits and make it more popular—at 53-kg, I'd bet she could outlift a lot of high school football players.



Puts what into perspective ?


Chris -

You've got me, too.

Either way, that's a lot of mass, but while Paul was an Olympic champion, a world champion and a world record holder, Holley cleans and jerks less than the world record in the snatch and totals about 78% of the world record, which means she is light years behind the leader.

[Chris McCarthy]

I'm still lost with any comparison to Anderson.

You could make the bodyweight comparison between just about any US female weightlifter and a leading male of the same weight and the female US weightlifter would be a ways off the best in her category - is that what you were trying to say?

Or were you just highlighting that she's the same size as Paul Anderson?

[Mike Corlett]

Melanie was a great asset to the sport, I think, and could help people understand its benefits and make it more popular—at 53-kg, I'd bet she could outlift a lot of high school football players.





I think she was a fantastic ambassador for US WL.

This HBO program is going to have millions of US viewers who know absolutely nothing about WL. It will be interesting. And, the thing is, there is nothing you can do about "controlling" the content of it. So, what is shown has the opportunity to advance the sport, or harm it.

[Randall Strossen]

I'm still lost with any comparison to Anderson.

You could make the bodyweight comparison between just about any US female weightlifter and a leading male of the same weight and the female US weightlifter would be a ways off the best in her category - is that what you were trying to say?

Or were you just highlighting that she's the same size as Paul Anderson?


Mike suggested that the media liked to focus on big, as in physical size, so I pointed out that Holley and Paul were about the same size—nothing complicated there.

I think if you want to go deeper on this, though, the obvious questions are How do we improve the state of weightlifting in the US and Why is Holley being presented as a medal hopeful in sport where she is so far behind the leaders?

[Kim Wood]

how can the show-casing of these huge women ever
be good for the sport? Come on, guys... let's rise above
(or is it slink below?) all the acquired guilt and PC doo doo
and admit that when the fat ladies show up and are
the "hope" for weight-lifting it's darn close to being all over.
(just got the new Milo...it's bright and crisp and fun but on the
cover ...another fat lady! What's happening? Help me, Rhonda!)

[Randall Strossen]

how can the show-casing of these huge women ever
be good for the sport? Come on, guys... let's rise above
(or is it slink below?) all the acquired guilt and PC doo doo
and admit that when the fat ladies show up and are
the "hope" for weight-lifting it's darn close to being all over.
(just got the new Milo...it's bright and crisp and fun but on the
cover ...another fat lady! What's happening? Help me, Rhonda!)


Only Kim dared to say the obvious, but about that MILO cover, check out what she lifts: Tatiana Kashirina flirted with all the world records at the recent European Championships and guess what she weighs? About 100 kg.

[Kim Wood]

in most social circles( especially PC ones) if you make
statements like I have made here about "fat ladies"
you get accused about being "threatened"...
yes, I've read the numbers, Randy...yes, along with my aesthetic
sensibilities being shook-up ... I'm threatened!
(today, every time I turn around another strong, fat-lady
shows up(Mike C., HBO, ESPN The Magazine, the new Milo)...where
are we at if one of these gals can sing?)

[Randall Strossen]

in most social circles( especially PC ones) if you make
statements like I have made here about "fat ladies"
you get accused about being "threatened"...
yes, I've read the numbers, Randy...yes, along with my aesthetic
sensibilities being shook-up ... I'm threatened!
(today, every time I turn around another strong, fat-lady
shows up(Mike C., HBO, ESPN The Magazine)...where
are we at if one of these gals can sing?)

Well, I think you're being generous if you call some of the women who lift in the +75 kg category strong, but fat for sure—although my wife would be quick to say, How about Chemerkin?, so that's true, too.

On the other hand, if you call for 272.5 kg in the clean and jerk and then very nearly rack the bar (as Chemerkin did at the 2000 Olympics), we don't have to apologize for his appearance: Ok, sure he's not a bodybuilder, but let's see you lift that.

Once again, though, Kim cut to the chase: just hope they don't sing.

[Mike Corlett]

Kim,

Does Holley get any Brownie Points from you if:

1. She has played offensive line on a high school State Championship team in boys' football.
2. Her State is Ohio.
3. Her brother is a Pro Football player.


More on her:

http://www.upi.com/Sports_News/2012/06/04/Mangold-seeking-strongest-woman-title/UPI-20661338838803/

Am serious? Well, I don't know, seems like those things would count for something in Wood's World.

[Kim Wood]

although, I really like women...somehow, Holley gets
zero points in Wood's World... (thank God "pole dancing"
might become an Olympic sport)(really)

[Craig T. Covington]

Personally, I think this is one of the good things about weightlifting. Looks don't matter, only performance. Unfortunately, the general public most likely disagrees with me. I did watch some program on MTV a while back about Holley and she seemed pretty nice so that's a plus. Her brother seemed like kind of a butthead, though.

[Chris McCarthy]

Kim,

It's heartwarming to see that after all these years you still never knowingly miss a chance to display your ignorance and talk out of your bottom.

Mind you, at least you don't lose points for saying what actually you mean, unlike the Good (or is it Evil) Dr Strossen

[Mike Corlett]

Randy, you mention that Holley is only lifting 78% of what the best women are lifting. If she is going to the Olympics and only one US man is, does that mean that she is better than every single US man save one?
If so, then I don't think she should be disrespected by any American on the IronMind Forum.

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

No one should be surprised that the USAW lies, in this instance about Mangold being a potential medalist. I've also seen claims Farris is a potential medalist this year. Now, Farris is a spectacular lifter but his chance of earning a medal at the Olympics is exactly zero. The idea being put forward that the women are somehow superior to the men and represent a great hope for weightlifting in America is absurd. The women are doing better than the men merely because the sport is newer and is still developing. Meanwhile they are declining against the world rapidly. Unfortunately, the USAW thought it was being clever favoring the women since it was a new sport and they have shifted resources to them in a disproportional method compared to their performance thus starving the men's program of funds and support. IN 2016, the USAW will have no women or men's slots. Then it's government granted monopoly will become meaningless and competition is sure to enter the field, meaning things can start to improve.

[Erick Brown]

If she is 5"9" 350 lbs as posted above Holley has a BMI of 51.7. We should be concerned about more than how much she weighs or whether or not she metals. Someone like that should immediately find another activity and get a bit healthier.

[Randall Strossen]

Randy, you mention that Holley is only lifting 78% of what the best women are lifting. If she is going to the Olympics and only one US man is, does that mean that she is better than every single US man save one?
If so, then I don't think she should be disrespected by any American on the IronMind Forum.


Mike -

At this point, I think we need to reel in some of the easy talk about disrespect, as well as saying things than might be construed as disrespectful, and stick with the facts being discussed.

It seems like a straightforward question, but we have to go back to understanding that the men and women qualify via how each (gender) did in their respective world championships (that's the team points that determine how many men/women each country can send to London). The USA women do better at their worlds than the men do at theirs, so the USA got two slots for women and initially zero for the men. At the Pan Ams, the USA picked up one slot for a man.

On to Kendrick Farris, now.

Kendrick did about 90% of the world records in his class at the Olympic Trials, hugely different from 78%. His numbers from the Trials would have put him in 11th place at the Beijing Olympics (where he totaled a little more than he did at the Trials and placed 8th). If he lifted 78% of the winner in Beijing, he would have been 16th place, second to last in the class and ironically enough, guess how much the last place man in the 85-kg class totaled. 255 kg!

Probably without exception, men's weightlifting is more competitive than women's weightlifting (although I've never analyzed the numbers), meaning that more competitors are bunched closer together, but for both men and women, the supers, for example, have less depth than some of the lighter classes, so you can place higher in the supers (still not in medal range, though) with a lower percent of the winning total. This means that in some ways, a super's place can be inflated compared to the actual performance level as a percent of the gold medalist/world records.

And you thought GOPD could give you a headache!

[Mike Corlett]

Tuesday night it is on for HBO. I have it set to record, way past my bedtime. Will watch it on Wednesday.

[Mike Corlett]

Kim,

Does Holley get any Brownie Points from you if:

1. She has played offensive line on a high school State Championship team in boys' football.
2. Her State is Ohio.
3. Her brother is a Pro Football player.

Saw the HBO program. Seems like she should get Brownie Points as a Philosopher. Commenting on her high school football days (she is 22 now):

"Guys are kind of simple. If you can beat them up, they tend to respect you".

************************************************** ************************************************** *******

They said her best snatch is 250 and her best clean and jerk is 320.
Her coach said he thought she could get to nearly 300 and 400.
She is 5 foot 7, 350 lbs. She weighed 370 in high school.
No one was ever hiding from using the word "obese" to describe her.
They acted like it was "possible" for her to get a bronze medal.
She started with the WL at age 18, after high school football, as she was too slow and too short to play beyond high school football.
She seems to be comfortable with her size. Says her parents did everything they could for her to be healthy.
The focus for the first 75% was with her size and personality. Later, there was some minimal discussion of the sport.

I think that somehow, Americans who watched this will be rooting for her, a type of "Rocky" underdog. I suppose that means to brace yourself for NBC (and Bob Costas) talking about her in a big way. I must say that my Lifetime Dream Olympic Moment would be to see Holley beat up Bob Costas on camera. Now THAT would be good for the Sport...

[Randall Strossen]

Saw the HBO program. Seems like she should get Brownie Points as a Philosopher. Commenting on her high school football days (she is 22 now):

"Guys are kind of simple. If you can beat them up, they tend to respect you".

************************************************** ************************************************** *******

They said her best snatch is 250 and her best clean and jerk is 320.
Her coach said he thought she could get to nearly 300 and 400.
She is 5 foot 7, 350 lbs. She weighed 370 in high school.
No one was ever hiding from using the word "obese" to describe her.
They acted like it was "possible" for her to get a bronze medal.
She started with the WL at age 18, after high school football, as she was too slow and too short to play beyond high school football.
She seems to be comfortable with her size. Says her parents did everything they could for her to be healthy.
The focus for the first 75% was with her size and personality. Later, there was some minimal discussion of the sport.

I think that somehow, Americans who watched this will be rooting for her, a type of "Rocky" underdog. I suppose that means to brace yourself for NBC (and Bob Costas) talking about her in a big way. I must say that my Lifetime Dream Olympic Moment would be to see Holley beat up Bob Costas on camera. Now THAT would be good for the Sport...


Her coach is predicting she could improve her lifts by about 20%? When?

I'd say that if Holley does 5% more than she did at the US National Championships this year, everyone would be ecstatic for her, but this would still leave her light years behind the leaders—which isn't to say she couldn't medal because if maybe a few of the women ahead of her didn't show up, broke their arms, tested positive or bombed out, she'd could end up in bronze medal position.

[Kim Wood]

NY Times Magazine had an article about the Mangold woman today.
(Arthur Godfrey once had a smash hit with the "She's too
Fat for Me Polka" ... I hear it in my mind with every one of
these mentions of this sad woman)

[Mike Corlett]

NY Times Magazine had an article about the Mangold woman today.
(Arthur Godfrey once had a smash hit with the "She's too
Fat for Me Polka" ... I hear it in my mind with every one of
these mentions of this sad woman)

Thanks for the head's up. Here is a link to the article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/24/magazine/shes-350-pounds-and-olympics-bound.html

I read all of the comments, there were close to 200 of them. It tells me that she will be talked about quite a bit when the Olympics roll around.

What I thought was "sad" was not Holley's situation, but the number of writers who were using this story, about a subject they knew nothing about, as a type of "empowerment" story. I think that angle works better for a 115 lb woman than a 350 lb one. It tells me that the search for heroes is more desperate than even I thought.

The most prophetic comment was someone quoting one of her funny quips (and she can be very funny), and said something like "I hear Letterman calling". I say it happens. Watch this thread for more developments! :;hy)

[Chris Rice]

Coach Cannella and 3 lifters from Columbus Weighting Club came to our local HS and did a training session for our football team - Holley was one of them. Afterwards they all did a teaching session with the kids. While she may not medal - she is certainly a great ambassador for the sport of Olympic Weightlifting and a very nice lady.

[Mike Corlett]

As we get closer to the Olympics, more articles on HM are popping up. This on NPR:

http://www.npr.org/2012/07/05/156292980/at-last-superheavyweight-finds-her-olympic-niche

And this from the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/mangold-sister-of-jets-pro-bowl-center-ahead-of-schedule-as-she-heads-to-first-olympics/2012/07/05/gJQA3q54PW_story.html

So, she has a goal, a Bronze Medal. What will be interesting is how much, if any, "the gap" between her Oly performance and Randy's first comments about her will be narrowed. In this case, I am talking about "hard numbers", actual lifts. The focus of the media has been on her weight and her personality. Very little is said about her athletic performance, which is where the focus should be. If her lifts go up significantly from her previously reported numbers, then I say "great".

[Randall Strossen]

HM . . . hmmm.

Not sure how the good folks at NPR decided that the top two women's supers were about 66 kg ahead of their nearest rivals, opening the door for HM to maybe get a bronze medal, but don't believe the former and know that the latter, terrific as it would be, appears to be a stretch.

In fact, this could be the first Olympics where each of the medalists in the women's +75 kg category totals over 300 kg: Jang Mi Ran, Zhou Lulu and Tatiana Kashirina are the obvious choices for the medals. Remember, Holley's total at the Trials was 255 kg, which means she cleaned and jerked in the range of what the top lifters snatch.

Still, anything could happen as no-shows, bomb outs, positives, dislocated arms, etc. are all part of the bargain, and maybe Holley's training has been going great guns and she's looking at more like a 270- or 280-kg total in London.

When I read these stories about Holley I keep wondering why they never mention Sarah Robles, who beat Holley at the Trials, but how funny would it be if every if, and or but happened and Robles slipped in for the bronze?!

[Mike Corlett]

When I read these stories about Holley I keep wondering why they never mention Sarah Robles, who beat Holley at the Trials, but how funny would it be if every if, and or but happened and Robles slipped in for the bronze?!

Good Point.

I checked the Internet last night for new stories on her, and found that regardless of who the "author" was, all the stories circulating were the same article above (the Post article), recycled over and over and over again. It made me realize just how rare good writing is. And the articles written so far, completely lacking of actual useful content. I was hoping for so much more, and thought that the HBO story would trigger "something". So far, it has been very disappointing.

[Kim Wood]

Mike, exactly what part of the "sports market' does
this Mangold woman appeal to? The sports "oddity' market last night
was Prince Fielder knocking the stuffings out of the ball on
the pre-All Star Game "home run derby"...
(no fat woman can compete with a fat man who can hit homers)

[Randall Strossen]

Kim -

You ever see this happen in the NFL . . . where the hype gets 50 yards ahead of the reality?

This kind of thing happened with Mark Henry, with a little help from his manager, and even though Mark wasn't much of a weightlifter, he got outsized publicity and once came into a press conference mumbling some rehearsed line about how the only reason he wasn't the world champion was because he didn't take steroids.

Without missing a beat, Manfred Nerlinger piped up: "What are you talking about Mark—you're the strongest guy in the room."

[Erick Brown]

So it comes to this. No American men make it to the bigs. But we've got this one woman who might win a bronze if someone breaks an arm. Truly pathetic. Weightlifting won't see much coverage on American TV. We don't get Eurosport on our cable system. I'm hoping that some of the Chinese channels cover it. Maybe YouTube will come through. Pathetic.

[Kim Wood]

the "game" catches up with most "publicity creations"...
there will be "heralded rookies" but in NFL "league play"
"reality" sets in very fast. A very neat thing about violent sports. This seems to be some kind of
promotional thing(the telling bit of info is Mike saying that there
have been many articles on Mangold but they are all variations
of the same article...) to beat the drum for the Olympic TV
coverage coming up...

(apart but connected: Early Saturday morning I couldn't sleep
...(it was 102 outside)...so Mickey (my attack Shih-tzu)and I
put on the TV. It was an interesting live show from the Wimbledon
tennis tourney in England...one of the McEnroes and Chrissy
Everett and some other aging tennis stars were talking about the
phenomenon of "loud grunting" and "shrill noises"by many of today's female tennis stars...
an awesome discussion to say the least...(many of today's
female tennis stars grunt(or even scream) as they hit the
ball...)...seems the loud grunts are rubbing the "powers that be"
the wrong way(actually the loud grunts are the reason I watch...
that and Serena's bod )... Well, hearing all this controversy
about loud grunting I flash back to Paul Anderson and his
awesome farting on the lifting platform. A high-light of the
US-Russian Olympic Lifting tour in the US(I think it was in 1956)
was Time Magazine's review of the matches...the writer was
captivated by the awesome Anderson's awesome lifting and
awesome belching and farting on the platform! He gave all
these awesome talents high marks! So, (I'm searching to
handle this delicately)...with all the references to Paul
Anderson concerning the Mangold lady are we dealing
platform gut rumbles and toots also? (Terry Todd and I
need to know)(him more than me))

[Mike Corlett]

Mike, exactly what part of the "sports market' does
this Mangold woman appeal to? The sports "oddity' market last night
was Prince Fielder knocking the stuffings out of the ball on
the pre-All Star Game "home run derby"...
(no fat woman can compete with a fat man who can hit homers)

What part of the sports market? Well, after the poor followup (no good coverage) on what I hoped would be a good setup (Real Sports on HBO), I guess the same market as the US Sumo Wrestling market, a very small one.
Melanie Roach (180 degrees different than Holley in all respects) got her "supermom" stories, but it didn't do anything for US Weightlifting in the public eye either.
Forty years ago, a skinny runner named Frank Shorter, by winning the Munich Olympics marathon, started an exercise revolution (the "running boom"). This is not that kind of story.

[Kim Wood]

(as I've mentioned here before) "weightlifting" will always
have a place in the Olympics...it's one of the few sports where
third world countries can win medals( if their lifters aren't
disqualified for dope)...

in the world at large there is no place for fat ladies('cept in
Chris McCarthy's imagination and pre-Olympic drivel)...
even Sophie Tucker lamented
"I'm just a truck on the highway of love" ...but she finishes
with a prideful "nobody loves a fat girl...but, oh how a fat
girl can love..."

[Chris McCarthy]

(as I've mentioned here before) "weightlifting" will always
have a place in the Olympics...it's one of the few sports where
third world countries can win medals( if their lifters aren't
disqualified for dope)...

in the world at large there is no place for fat ladies('cept in
Chris McCarthy's imagination and pre-Olympic drivel)...
even Sophie Tucker lamented
"I'm just a truck on the highway of love" ...but she finishes
with a prideful "nobody loves a fat girl...but, oh how a fat
girl can love..."

I'm still waiting on how you are planning on giving Strongman the Rebirth it deserves.

Until then, I'll go on dreaming about Holley - and you can go on dreaming about me..... ;)

[Randall Strossen]

(as I've mentioned here before) "weightlifting" will always
have a place in the Olympics...it's one of the few sports where
third world countries can win medals( if their lifters aren't
disqualified for dope)...

in the world at large there is no place for fat ladies('cept in
Chris McCarthy's imagination and pre-Olympic drivel)...
even Sophie Tucker lamented
"I'm just a truck on the highway of love" ...but she finishes
with a prideful "nobody loves a fat girl...but, oh how a fat
girl can love..."


This is an interesting perspective—that weightlifting will always be in the Olympics—because while it's true that the sport has a lot of points in its favor, it also has some big strikes against it . . . that's a a whole topic in itself, and one that interests me, but until someone starts a women's sumo league and proves it can survive in the open market, I'm with Kim that going along with a media frenzy fat with fantasy and freakiness, while lean on the facts, does the sport no favors.

[Mike Corlett]

Here is a recent article from a Dayton newspaper:


http://www.daytondailynews.com/dayton-sports/centervilles-mangold-confident-as-olympic-moment-nears-1404250.html?cxtype=feedbot


And here is something from the NBC Olympics website:


http://www.nbcolympics.com/news-blogs/weightlifting/catching-up-with-holley-mangold.html

[Randall Strossen]

Here is a recent article from a Dayton newspaper:


http://www.daytondailynews.com/dayton-sports/centervilles-mangold-confident-as-olympic-moment-nears-1404250.html?cxtype=feedbot


And here is something from the NBC Olympics website:


http://www.nbcolympics.com/news-blogs/weightlifting/catching-up-with-holley-mangold.html



So, who thinks Kim went to one of the meet-and-greets with Holley? And if so, did he get a picture with her or just an autograph?

I think he passed on the opportunity, but that's merely one man's guess.

[Chris Rice]

So, who thinks Kim went to one of the meet-and-greets with Holley? And if so, did he get a picture with her or just an autograph?

I think he passed on the opportunity, but that's merely one man's guess.

For all Kim's grumpiness - he's pretty supportive of athletes who work hard. I don't think he went either but it wouldn't really surprise me much either.

[Kim Wood]

didn't go...but as fate would have it...the "big woman"
keeps crossing MY path. Mickey got me up early...
fired up the coffee...and opened my Cincinnati Enquirer
to a full color pix of moose-lady Holley! In an article
about "Ohio's Olympians" Holley gets the only photo...
gettin' closer to that bronze...America's darling!

[Randall Strossen]

didn't go...but as fate would have it...the "big woman"
keeps crossing MY path. Mickey got me up early...
fired up the coffee...and opened my Cincinnati Enquirer
to a full color pix of moose-lady Holley! In an article
about "Ohio's Olympians" Holley gets the only photo...
gettin' closer to that bronze...America's darling!


Miko nicely posted a link to the final entries:

http://www.iwf.net/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2012/07/WL-Final-Entries-10-July.pdf

and it looks like Sarah Robles (the American who beat Holley at the Trials but never gets mentioned by the mass media) is ranked 10th on the entry totals and America's darling is on her coattails in 11th, so if things follow that script, it will take more than a handful of no-shows, broken arms, drug positives, etc. to move Holley to the podium, based on what she did at the Trials.

The kicker is that there's something funny going on with the total given for the woman listed below Holley, because she's the defending world champion (totaled 328 kg) and is one of the three favorites for the gold medal, so that effectively moves Sarah and Holley down one more place in these preliminary rankings.

[Kim Wood]

more pub for our girl... this morning's BLAZE.com has
big story on Mangold...seems to be made up from NYTimes Magazine article and an article from "The Daily" ...
nation's press seems to have its finger on the nation's pulse...
(or at least that McCarthy feller's pulse...)

[Mike Corlett]

I think this is a new one that does not appear recyled. Other ones are popping up here and there, mainly local papers I think:


http://www.thedaily.com/page/2012/07/14/071412-wknd-health-holley-mangold-interview-ruiz-1-3/


I guess I am starting to wonder "where are the fact checkers" on this stuff. I understand the being excited, being proud, representing your country, or even being one of only 3 Americans going to the Olympics. But talking about shooting for the Gold? After several months of this, it is revealing about the state of Journalism today.

[Kim Wood]

the nation's press: Arthur Jones once told
me that compared to the press coverage out of
Washington a Joe Weider magazine seemed almost
like the Truth...

[Mike Corlett]

the nation's press: Arthur Jones once told
me that compared to the press coverage out of
Washington a Joe Weider magazine seemed almost
like the Truth...

I had "heard" that Arthur Jones could be funny. Good One!

[Randall Strossen]

Are you sitting down?

Going into the the 1996 Olympics, I think it was USA Today that ran a story about how Mark Henry was a favorite for the gold medal in weightlifting—Mark, of course, had a manager who was already in high gear, aiming to secure Mark a pro-wrestling contract where, I am told, he is presented as being the world's strongest man or is that the World's Strongest Man?

I called the newspaper and told them that Mark would be lucky to come in about 10th place, but they never followed up on it.

This is why when John Grimek was looking at Terry Todd's book on powerlifting, he said to Bruce Wilhelm: "The pen is mightier than the barbell."

Oh, yes, Mark did not make the top 10 (he came in 14th), but was the heaviest athlete at the Olympics, so I guess one could argue that he did perform with some distinction. This is why I said earlier that Holley might be on track to eat Mark's lunch, so to speak.

[Mike Corlett]

This is why when John Grimek was looking at Terry Todd's book on powerlifting, he said to Bruce Wilhelm: "The pen is mightier than the barbell."


Evidently Grimek also had a great sense of humor and wit!

[Mike Corlett]

Here is one I missed. Best and most unique article of the bunch, including some criticism similar to what is mentioned on this thread:


http://espn.go.com/olympics/story/_/page/hopefuls-holleymangold/2012-london-olympics-why-holley-mangold-weightlifting-rock-star

[Chris McCarthy]

Just to keep some sense of perspective on this, I am informed that a documentary entitled "Girl Power: Going for Gold" will air in the UK on BBC3 at 9pm on Sunday, regarding a trio of British Female lifters (Zoe Smith, Hannah Powell and Helen Jewell).

So I would say talk of unlikely Gold Medals isn't limited to any one lifter or country!

[Mike Corlett]

Holley in the news again. This time, two different angles, as the article is not much:

1. For the first time ever, there are more US female Olympians than male US Olympians (and HM was the chosen poster girl in the article to illustrate that point). Regardless of Holley Mangold, that is an interesting point.
2. This article was Voice of America (VOA). Voice of America! Interesting story selection, the world certainly has changed...


http://www.voanews.com/content/weightlifter-among-female-athlete-majority-on-us-olympic-team/1441510.html

[Chris Rice]

A question that seems to need answered. Why is Holley - who is the second best lifter in the class - getting all the attention over Sarah - who was first and beat Holley in the qualifiers? Interesting thing the media,

[Mike Corlett]

Here is a chance for posters here to put action where their mouths are. It is a petition to Nike for Sarah Robles, "The other female Superheavyweight", asking Nike to sponsor her. Being on Brooks Kubik's email list, I got this from him today. Sarah is broke and needs help. Apparently Nike said they would sponsor her if she had 50,000 signatures. She is about 90% there. Here is your chance to help out:


http://www.change.org/petitions/nike-sponsor-weightlifting-champion-sarah-robles-in-the-london-olympics?utm_source=action_alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=7866&alert_id=fhDzbAIeqr_cspekTVcpW

[Zach Kasukonis]

Here is a chance for posters here to put action where their mouths are. It is a petition to Nike for Sarah Robles, "The other female Superheavyweight", asking Nike to sponsor her. Being on Brooks Kubik's email list, I got this from him today. Sarah is broke and needs help. Apparently Nike said they would sponsor her if she had 50,000 signatures. She is about 90% there. Here is your chance to help out:


http://www.change.org/petitions/nike-sponsor-weightlifting-champion-sarah-robles-in-the-london-olympics?utm_source=action_alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=7866&alert_id=fhDzbAIeqr_cspekTVcpW

Thanks for pointing this out, Mike. Got a good sized handful of friends to also sign. Not that many more signatures needed to hit the goal, I think it'll happen pretty easily.

[Randall Strossen]

Here is a chance for posters here to put action where their mouths are. It is a petition to Nike for Sarah Robles, "The other female Superheavyweight", asking Nike to sponsor her. Being on Brooks Kubik's email list, I got this from him today. Sarah is broke and needs help. Apparently Nike said they would sponsor her if she had 50,000 signatures. She is about 90% there. Here is your chance to help out:


http://www.change.org/petitions/nike-sponsor-weightlifting-champion-sarah-robles-in-the-london-olympics?utm_source=action_alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=7866&alert_id=fhDzbAIeqr_cspekTVcpW

Mike -

Thanks for posting this link—let's see if this helps to put Sarah over the top:

http://www.ironmind.com/

http://www.ironmind.com/ironmind/opencms/Articles/2012/Jul/Sign_Up_for_Sarah.html

[Mike Corlett]

I saw that in "Time" magazine, of all Olympic competitors, all sports, all countries, HM was listed as one of the "Top 50 to Watch".

I was listening to NPR's Commine Pinko show "Wait Wait Don't Tell Me" over the weekend, and there was a bit of trivia mentioning some woman who was setting an Olympic record for being "most pregnant", I think it was 7 and 1/2 or 8 months. Before they said it was for "shooting", one of the comics, a female regular on the show, said, "What sport is that, Weightlifting? Couldn't you just see that? The head coming out during the Squat!" It was met by hysterical laughter by the audience.

So the Squat is not an Olympic lift, there is still a squat phase of the lifts. See? The profile of Weightlifting has already been lifted higher than it has been in years!

The real test is whether Bob Costas ever mentions Weightlifting this year.

And, I believe I am wrong, no Letterman...:(

[Mike Corlett]

Here is a chance for posters here to put action where their mouths are. It is a petition to Nike for Sarah Robles, "The other female Superheavyweight", asking Nike to sponsor her. Being on Brooks Kubik's email list, I got this from him today. Sarah is broke and needs help. Apparently Nike said they would sponsor her if she had 50,000 signatures. She is about 90% there. Here is your chance to help out:


http://www.change.org/petitions/nike-sponsor-weightlifting-champion-sarah-robles-in-the-london-olympics?utm_source=action_alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=7866&alert_id=fhDzbAIeqr_cspekTVcpW

Well, Sarah may not get her Nike Sponsorship, but she got a little attention in People, and is going to have a nice wardrobe in London:

http://stylenews.peoplestylewatch.com/2012/07/24/olympics-2012-sarah-robles-style/

[Kim Wood]

"Strong" on PBS tonight... it's about the Haworth woman
(I'm getting my fat girls mixed up)... not on the cover
of Rolling Stone but another article(in this one she's a
medal contender)on the youthful Mangold chick(photo
looks like Paul Anderson...The Dixie Derrick)...did someone
put peyote in the coffee? ...all the world's in a gender tizzy!
('cept me, Betty Weider, Joe Roark and Hartnett)

[Mike Corlett]

"Strong" on PBS tonight... it's about the Haworth woman
(I'm getting my fat girls mixed up)...

What is the name of the PBS program? Each community has different schedules, but I didn't see anything on the grid coming close to this. Thanks

[Kim Wood]

Mike: "Strong" listing was in NY Times...said "check
local PBS out-lets..." I'm watching "The Big Sleep"
for the 39th time.

[Mike Corlett]

Mike: "Strong" listing was in NY Times...said "check
local PBS out-lets..." I'm watching "The Big Sleep"
for the 39th time.


Okay, I got it. It is a documentary, and it will be on tomorrow night in my neck of the woods. Thanks! Yeah, it is about the US Heavyweight gal from a few years back, Cheryl Hayworth (spelling?)

[Mike Corlett]

Just when you think this has gone as far as it can go, it goes further:



http://www.eonline.com/news/328160/olympian-holley-mangold-s-advice-for-brad-pitt

[Kim Wood]

today's Wall Street Journal(which has had consistently
excellent articles on the Olympics)...has an article
called "Bodies Built for Gold" ... (and an analysis of "the biggest,
fastest and strongest...")...somehow the fat weightlifting girl
from Centerville. Ohio wasn't mentioned. Of course,
the silly stuff is over and the quest for athletic excellence
has begun...

[Wolfgang Hasenmaier]

Her getting Brad Pitt is a as approximately as likely as getting a podium finish.

[Mike Corlett]

Posted in the Washington Post in the last 15 minutes. It is still going on and on, even though the weightlifting has begun:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/us-super-heavyweight-holley-mangold-hoping-to-use-olympic-platform-to-inspire-others/2012/07/30/gJQAUCVbLX_story.html

[Mike Corlett]

Today's article says:

This is one brilliant young woman

Refers to her as an Elite Athlete

Mentions she has a decent shot at a Bronze Medal

Speaks of "The Athlete Gene", and how one fellow never understood it until he met Holley.

This, and much more in today's Olympic Update on Holley Mangold:

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/columns/jerry-sullivan/article975756.ece

[Chris Rice]

If you take away all the BS the reporters, commentators etc are saying - she sounds like she has a pretty good handle on things overall. I've met her and I liked her - she came on her own dime to our school to help out a bunch of kids she had never met - they still talk about her and are planning to watch her online when she lifts . She inspired them to try new things and went out of her way to talk to both the smaller and "larger" kids there that day. A medal isn't likely but I think she's a positive role model in many ways - despite her weight - I wish more people did as much.

[Randall Strossen]

I think somewhere earlier on this thread, all the hoopla aside, I mentioned that if Holley got up to around a 270-kg total, everyone would be enormously happy and guess what?

Rumor has it that both Sarah and Holley have posted recent best training lifts that would put them in that range.

Barring a mishap, though, I say watch for the women's +75 kg podium to have +300 kg totals in all three places.

[Todd Lewis]

If you take away all the BS the reporters, commentators etc are saying - she sounds like she has a pretty good handle on things overall. I've met her and I liked her - she came on her own dime to our school to help out a bunch of kids she had never met - they still talk about her and are planning to watch her online when she lifts . She inspired them to try new things and went out of her way to talk to both the smaller and "larger" kids there that day. A medal isn't likely but I think she's a positive role model in many ways - despite her weight - I wish more people did as much.

Thanks Chris for saying something nice about this lady.

[Mike Corlett]

I think somewhere earlier on this thread, all the hoopla aside, I mentioned that if Holley got up to around a 270-kg total, everyone would be enormously happy and guess what?

Rumor has it that both Sarah and Holley have posted recent best training lifts that would put them in that range.

Barring a mishap, though, I say watch for the women's +75 kg podium to have +300 kg totals in all three places.

That is 6%.

Do that a few more time between now and 2016, and you DO have a couple of contenders...

Sarah has not really been doing this much longer than Holley.

I did watch the movie about Cheryl Haworth, and never mentioned it on this thread. It made the Stanless Steel movie look upbeat by comparison. Cheryl seemed like a real nice person, but it was edited like she was a very sad and unhappy person. The movie was a "2012" movie, but it ends in 2008.

About 4 years ago, at AOBS, Tommy Kono showed a shot of himself, a picture taken about 50 years ago. He was standing on a stage, alone, and the camera was behind him. He was facing the audience alone, no one next to him, no one to his side, behind him, etc. He said something like "This is what US Weightlifting is all about. It is just you. No one else." Maybe the book should have been called "The Loneliness of the American Weightlifter", not Long Distance Runner.

Unless they show the women's heavyweight lifting during Prime Time on the regular NBC channel, I say that the net impact of all of these articles in the papers was zilch. If it is covered during Prime Time, that would be big. And if Bob Costas says anything about them, then that is real big. Just a few more days to go.

[Kim Wood]

so, I'm watching the Olympics and they got this ad on...
it's some fat person running on an isolated road...and they're
talking about tolerance and trying hard...and the figure keeps
running down the road and jiggle-ing and heaving...and
I'm thinking "oh no!... it's the Mangold girl!" (gotta call Mike!)
...well, it wasn't the Mangold girl... just some poor fat kid(a male)
and it was a Nike ad and there was some message(I think
there was some message) about being nice to fat people(I
guess) and then it's back to the competition and it's "root
hog or die"...and "killer instinct" ...and "fat pigs get butchered"
...don't know how all this fat talk fits in...I'm not trained to be nice.
(I'm trained to try to win and to respond to the winners...)

[Erick Brown]

Unless they show the women's heavyweight lifting during Prime Time on the regular NBC channel, I say that the net impact of all of these articles in the papers was zilch. If it is covered during Prime Time, that would be big. And if Bob Costas says anything about them, then that is real big. Just a few more days to go.

I doubt they'll show it. They are showing 4 minutes of coverage and 3 minutes of commercials. (I was bored and pissed last night so I timed them.) They are picking events that show some drama within they're 4 minute slot. They'd only be able to show one or two lifts, no drama, no story. I love the games, but it's almost unwatchable because of all the commercials.

[Mike Corlett]

...don't know how all this fat talk fits in...I'm not trained to be nice.
(I'm trained to try to win and to respond to the winners...)

Just the three or four years you spent with Arthur Jones would be a lifetime of "insensitivity training" for most. But then, there is Gary Jones. I guess if he did a joint venture project with a good writer HE could write a story that would be completely inspirational, more so than any Olympic Athlete, the greatest story of survival ever written.

Most of us don't expect "nice" from you. But speaking of Fat People, there are guys in the NFL who are very fat, but I have never figured out how they can move the way they do, and imagine what they could do if they were not fat. But like heavy weightlifters, it appears that the added "mass" works to their advantage so that they can do the things they do.

[Mike Corlett]

Conan apparently tweeted a joke about Holley:


http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/throughthearch/entries/2012/08/01/holley_mangold_to_brad_pitt_ca.html/


He makes a "prediction" of what she will bring home...

[Kim Wood]

Mike...the fat guys in the NFL are just fat guys...some have
ability some don't(some have "Jackie Gleason feet" and can
move around before they get in the way and those without that mobility
just get in the way)(almost none are healthy)...but this Olympic fat-girl Weight-lifting thing is something more...the culture knows that being fat(and at 350+ pounds Mangold is really fat...) leads to a lousy self-image and
certainly poor health but like the response to the film
"Precious"(not McKenzie) ( and its grossly fat star, Gabourey Sidibe)
we seem to be getting a Sunday-school lesson on why we
should be nice to fat people(and how proud they are)... some kind of PC message that's
easy-riding with the phenomenon. I think it's weak...
(if the Mangold woman played high school football with boys
lets draw the "equality" conclusion and have her compete against
men...fat chance she'd be in the Olympics!)

(and of course, there is the strange world of fat-porn...)

(I was a close friend of Arthur Jones for over ten years.
Gary Jones' story would not make a particularly interesting book...
I'm not even sure he is a survivor.)

[Mike Corlett]

the culture knows that being fat(and at 350+ pounds Mangold is really fat...) leads to a lousy self-image and
certainly poor health but like the response to the film
"Precious"(not McKenzie) ( and its grossly fat star, Gabourey Sidibe)
we seem to be getting a Sunday-school lesson on why we
should be nice to fat people(and how proud they are)... some kind of PC message that's
easy-riding with the phenomenon. I think it's weak...


Here is an article in salon.com written in reaction to Conan O'Brien's tweet, where the author is taking the exact position you describe:

http://www.salon.com/2012/07/30/holley_mangold_makes_conan_look_small/

[Erick Brown]

As American's and most western cultures get bigger and bigger and fatter and fatter, they must re-define "normal." Someday soon she may be cover-girl material.

[Kim Wood]

not true. Health is health...and things and standards that
are un-healthy aren't going to last very long. (un-health has very little cultural staying power...un-healthy people don't last. Check-out Amy Winehouse today)
The great lure of the televised Olympics is to see
happy(and sometimes un-happy) and optimistic and good looking young people with great bods doing awesome things

[Chris McCarthy]

Unhealthy people doing unhealthy things - yep, Jim Morrison and Jimi Hendrix haven't lasted.......
As for young looking people with awesome bods, I assume there's some reference to that ESPN piece about 80,000 condoms being used per Olympics.....

[Mike Corlett]

Sorry guys, I just can't help myself. Any new stories on Mangold, it goes here. This one is written about how the New York Jets are urging her brother to watch his sister in the Olympics:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/rex-ryan-tries-guilt-tripping-nick-mangold-over-135215297--nfl.html

[Kim Wood]

brilliant! Unfortunately, Morrison and Hendrix have been
dead for years(and to my knowledge, still are).

Just saw Shane Hamman on MSNBC...
evidently he's the announcer for the weightlifting events...
in introducing Shane the main announcer says "boy, things sure
have changed with you since the last Olympics! ..."
and it appeared they had...about a hundred pounds of more fat!
He touted the two giant US women as "top ten"...
(where's Terry Todd when we need him? He's always been good
with fat people)

[Mike Corlett]

Today's New York Post. This one has less "recyled" material from other stories and the writer did some of his own work for a change (no offense to all of the lazy writers of the last month, except to state that they are lazy, which is worse that being fat, seeing as you shouldn't be writing for major publications if you are lazy, plus if you are using someone else's material that is inaccurate then you are lazy and inaccurate which is even worse for being a journalist):

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/olympics/mangold_born_to_lift_fLRzwthfoG71b62TGMUI3L?utm_me dium=rss&utm_content=Olympics

[Mike Corlett]

The latest from "Wired". This one actually talks a little about the technical side of the sport for a change:

http://www.wired.com/playbook/2012/08/qa-holley-mangold/

[Erick Brown]

No male weightlifters. All boxer's out!

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/O/OLY_BOX_US_MEN_ELIMINATED?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-08-03-18-10-09

We just don't make them like we used to. But boy did those synchronized divers look good, or what?

[Kim Wood]

"after me, the deluge..."

Nick Mangold leaves Jets' camp to see his sister
lift at the Olympics in London. Well, we ain't seen
nothin', guys... Always looking for an "inspirational"
story the "sporting press" will go bonkers about
Ms. Mangold this week. I'll be home thinking about
Misty May's ass.

[Mike Corlett]

"after me, the deluge..."

Nick Mangold leaves Jets' camp to see his sister
lift at the Olympics in London. Well, we ain't seen
nothin', guys... Always looking for an "inspirational"
story the "sporting press" will go bonkers about
Ms. Mangold this week. I'll be home thinking about
Misty May's ass.

Well, I guess I am disappointed that I got up late today, and got outscooped by Kim Wood. Yes, it is true.

Sports Illustrated:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/football/nfl/08/04/nick-mangold-visits-olympics/index.html

Yahoo Sports:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/nick-mangold-olympics-see-sister-114511309--nfl.html


And, USA Today:



http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/london/weightlifting/story/2012-08-04/holley-mangold-brother-nick-going-london-olympics/56777286/1



One of the articles had a photo of her entering the Opening Ceremonies with, Kobe Bryant. I hadn't seen that before.

I think it is less than 24 hours to go before her competition. I noticed the sole American man, Farris, came in 10th yesterday. If she totals more than Sarah Robles and comes in 9th place or higher, then she will go down in history as the best performing American in Weightlifting at the 2012 Olympics. Go down in History. Sounds like a good cover for the December MILO. Randy can print extra copies and sell them at Retail Outlets. No charge for the solid business advice to RJS, IronMind, and MILO...


Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Kim, no charge for this, either:

http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2008/08/18/slideshow_misty_may_kerri_walsh_aamp_the/

[Kim Wood]

thanks, Mike. Ungawa bawanna!

[Mike Corlett]

In a little over an hour, our Fearless Leader will be taking photos of Holley. If he plays his cards right, maybe he can sell a few for big bucks to some newspapers, as he is the one with the good access!

Here is the last article that I will post prior to Holley's lifting. If I had read in the beginning that she had tried 11 different sports and at age 5 was State Champion speed rollerskater, maybe I would have defended her against KW.

There are 15 lifters in her weight class. If she finishes Top 6, which is 5 or 6 places higher than where a few people who actually know what they are talking about think she will land, then I think she really does have a good future in the sport of WL. If she ends up 12th...well, she went a long way without a Press Agent, and maybe she should go into Marketing for a living...


http://www.boston.com/sports/other_sports/olympics/articles/2012/08/05/for_weightlifter_holley_mangold_bigger_is_better/?page=3

[Kim Wood]

10th! with a torn tendon(or two)... an inspiration to us all!

[Randall Strossen]

The fat lady must have sung because it's over and unfortunately, despite the media buzz, Holley didn't get the bronze medal.

You guys have probably seen the results: the winner did 333 kg and the silver medalist did 332. The other lifter (other than Holley, that is) who was projected to win the bronze medal (defending Olympic champion Jan Mi-Ran) was far from her best, so Hripsime Khurshudyan bagged it with a 294-kg total.

Sarah was in 7th with 265 kg and Holley was in 10th with 240, so Sarah went up quite a bit from her performance at the Trials and Holley went down about the same amount that Sarah went up.

I heard that Holley is being shopped for a pro wrestling contract—this might just be a rumor, but it worked for Mark Henry, so who knows?

By the way, the lifting at the top of the stack was sensational:

http://www.ironmind.com/

http://www.ironmind.com/ironmind/opencms/Articles/2012/Aug/Zhou_Lulu_Rules_the_Womenxs_Supers.html

[Mike Corlett]

I was out all day, and just checked the results. Yep, missed the live feed, NBC, everything.

Sarah's performance was not bad. I looked up the 2008 results and see 265 would have been good for 5th in 2008.

I was in a restuarant during a volleyball game and saw Holly completing a lift for several seconds on the screen. I doubt if any other competitor in the US Olympics got screen time while finishing 10th. So the Hype definitely had an effect.

Wrestling, eh? There would be a very experienced, educated, and intelligent fellow who could probably manage her business affairs for her should she choose to take that path...

[Mike Corlett]

10th! with a torn tendon(or two)... an inspiration to us all!

That's exactly what this Washington Post editorial person had to say:



http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/holley-mangolds-worth-her-weight-in-nerve/2012/08/05/06fd6aa4-df4d-11e1-a421-8bf0f0e5aa11_story.html

[Kim Wood]

I really can't think Holley would be attractive to any wrestling
promotion of any substance. Injured WWE wrestler, Mark
Henry is in London supposedly "scouting" talent...
perhaps Henry's agent, Terry Todd has reached some kind
of deal with Mangold(the New Yorker article kind of hinted
a Todd-Mangold connection). The bottom line in wrestling
is will people pay money to see a wrestler perform(Mark Henry
is pretty much a journeyman wrestler for the WWE...
he is not a valuable talent nor is he a great success...his
success is owed to the silver-tongued Todd and his ability
to con arch con man, Vince McMahon...maybe Todd can
hoodwink old Vince again...with the new Anja Kong.)


Mike: I happened to see Holley and the other female heavy-weights
lift on the main NBC feed. It was not particularly interesting
or entertaining. The last few minutes on Brian Williams'
nightly NBC news had a small story about the other US
heavy-weight ...it was tear jerkingly sad(homeless family...
she doesn't have any money to live on (or even pay her coach)
shops at Goodwill etc.)...I can't see any commercial opportunities
for these women(other than Houdini Todd and his ability
to con another con). Joe Weider knew the secret of all
life(it's tits and ass, folks) ...the Fab five have it, Misty and
Kerri have it...so do Bolt and Lolo. The only person
who I sense would find these poor tanker ladies attractive
is our guy, Chris McCarthy(UK PC champ).

[Chris McCarthy]

Kim,

You must have a cold heart indeed when it comes to weightlifting if two women competing at World Record Levels - with the result coming down to the final World Record Attempt Clean and Jerk - doesn't qualify as an interesting or entertaining competition. Perhaps you should focus your attention to Crossfit Games, where attractive, fit-bodied women (and men, you know, just in case) lift largely mediocre weights in somewhat revealing clothing and leave watching weightlifting to people who actually can appreciate what is going on (the standard of weightlifting in both our countires confirms that there must be at least 8 people in each who fit this criteria). As to the "Holley Mangold is Fat" thing, No ****! I would have hoped that a man of your wisdom and calibre would have moved past that now - as it is I'm betting she's more likely to be your screensaver than mine ("The Lady doth protest too much...." and all that).

Trading personal barbs with you is always fun but, come on, we're just fiddling whilst Rome burns.

[Chris Rice]

Sarah Robles - over weight lady who stood up on the Olympic stage and lived her dream.
Holley Mangold - over weight lady who stood up on the Olympic stage and lived her dream.
The lady who won their class was not exactly a little girl either - and she now has a Gold Medal on her neck - where were you guys - I didn't see any of you there?

[Kim Wood]

years ago(before "women's weight-lifting" in the
Olympics) there were always Russian "lady" shot-putters
competing in the Olympics to make us wince...now
we have heavy-weight lady weight-lifters with personality.
How far weight-lifting has fallen from Berger and Kono and
Schemansky and Vlasov and Zhabotinsky and even
Alexeev... time marches on(Rome burned down long ago).

Mike: The New York Times this morning has a very similar
article(with very large color photos) to the Washington Post article you cited. Holley
used "football" toughness to compete with serious injuries...
didn't do her best...almost ripped her pants...looks to the future with great optimism.

[Mike Corlett]

On June 19, the HBO series "Real Sports" is going to have a story on Holley Mangold. Typically, the show has reruns of its episodes throughout the week after it initially runs. Each story is typically about 12 minutes plus.
That may be the biggest "exposure" for US Olympic Weightlifting in the last 4 years.

On June 2, I started this thread. After Holley Mangold finished 10th in the Olympics, the NY Times runs this story:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/06/sports/olympics/olympic-weight-lifter-holley-mangold-finishes-10th.html

Whether you like the way things went down the last two months or not, whether you agree with the different opinions expressed here or in the articles, I do believe that this truly was the biggest exposure for US Olympic Weightlifting since Cheryl Haworth was a teen. I didn't expect there to be the symbolic and almost political discussions that there have been across the media and among people. I think the population at large doesn't really know what to do with these young women. I hope they both stick with it, improve, and maybe there can be some more constructive attention to the sport. I am not talking about this thread, I am talking about the country. Laugh if you want, but the "Crossfit" phenom has made "Olympic Weightlifting" a phrase where most people now understand that the Bench Press and Curl are not Olympic Lifts. This was an interesting thing to watch.

Meanwhile, Randall Strossen will continue to report, take photos, put out magazines, and rub shoulders with top lifters and officials from around the world, untouched by any of this.
:;hy)

[Erick Brown]

Meanwhile, Randall Strossen will continue to report, take photos, put out magazines, and rub shoulders with top lifters and officials from around the world, untouched by any of this.
:;hy)


Rock on Randall!

[Randall Strossen]

I never have agreed with the idea that any publicity is good publicity and Holley, frankly, looked awful—when she missed her first snatch, it reminded me of Mark Henry, the barbell flying around largely out of control, even if never looking very heavy. The bar crashes on her so hard when she cleans that I thought for sure she'd get an elbow touch (although that might be physically impossible for her). Holley might be able to lift weights, but she is far from being a weightlifter and if she sells anything, it won't be that sport. To say this is something like the publicity surrounding Cheryl Haworth is true, but while the two have some obvious similarities, they are miles apart as lifters—one could justify putting Cheryl in the limelight based on her performance, not simply playing the freak factor, but with Holley, it's pure hype.

I could go on, but in the lemming march of the journalists following a freak show, they missed the real story on the American weightlifting team: Kendrick Farris was overlooked. His 209-kg clean and jerk wasn't far off, and that's a pretty big weight for an 85-kg lifter. Hey, he's black, muscular and has great hair, so why no big story on him? Plus, he seems like a nice guy (had to throw that in since the guys who get ticked when someone questions Holley's lifting point out how nice she is, as if the sport is personality, instead of weightlifting).

Speaking of wrestling and Mark Henry, he is here (a friend of mine was hanging out with him), and it was TEDS who passed that rumor to me—his twisted mind probably connected the dots in a momentary lapse of reason.

[Kim Wood]

I was fortunate enough by "the luck of the draw" to see
the "Super Heavies" on one of the NBC Olympic feeds...it
was awesome(almost makes up for the silly, fat girl story-lines).
The main focus in today's major US media of course, was
Matthias Steiner faltering and dropping 432 pounds on his
neck(like Porky Pig said when he was a talent agent and that
cat ate that dynamite stick then drank some gasoline then
ate a lighted match...Ka-Boom! ..."g-g-g-good trick...but you can only do it once!"...that kind of a move by Steiner ...but he survived!(he actually walked away!))...
it was highlighted in USA Today and The New York Times...
color photos in both(and plenty of inter-net coverage for
the pratfall also...) BUT... The New York Times had awesome
coverage of the young, Iranian Giant, Salimikordasiabi winning
the Gold...complete with a page deep "sequence" of photos
showing him C&J-ing 545 pounds... very good coverage...
and so was NBC's (Shane Hamman could be the new Kaz as
an announcer..."he used his upper body and he used his lower
body")...there was drama...Sali even seemed to honor his coach and mentor Rezzazadeh and not try to set world record after
he won the gold... great stuff...

[Mike Corlett]

Mike: I happened to see Holley and the other female heavy-weights
lift on the main NBC feed. It was not particularly interesting
or entertaining. The last few minutes on Brian Williams'
nightly NBC news had a small story about the other US
heavy-weight ...it was tear jerkingly sad(homeless family...
she doesn't have any money to live on (or even pay her coach)
shops at Goodwill etc.)...I can't see any commercial opportunities
for these women(other than Houdini Todd and his ability
to con another con). Joe Weider knew the secret of all
life(it's tits and ass, folks) ...the Fab five have it, Misty and
Kerri have it...so do Bolt and Lolo. The only person
who I sense would find these poor tanker ladies attractive
is our guy, Chris McCarthy(UK PC champ).

My comments here are being triggered by several things: 1) Kim's post here, 2) Randy's photo on the Fatman Thread of the attractive Track and Field woman and Holley lifting, and 3) My having followed Lolo Jones ever since I saw her at the Olympic Trials in 2008, through all the articles on her regarding the 2012 Olympics.

The "it" factor. Lolo was attacked by the PC Police for having "it". The NY Times acted like she was a low-talent pretty face, and there was even backlash to their hit piece on her. Then Lolo pulls a 4th and folks acted like she had not even gotten out of the preliminaries. Yes, she was over the top with her "tweeting", the sharing of her thoughts on just about everything, and then she got hurt by the negative publicity. It may have been a bit naive of her, but I suspect she will come out stronger as a result of all of it.
Her two American teammates...the Press acted like it was Lolo's fault that they were not getting the attention that Lolo received. And, if anyone has ever checked out the figure/body/physique of Dawn Harper, the 2008 Gold Medalist Hurdler and the 2012 Silver Medal winner, they would see that there was no other woman in the entire Olympics (any sport, any country) that had anything on her. Kim: Misty and Kerri look like worn out marginally attractive gals compare to Dawn Harper's bod. But Dawn does not have the "it factor". Is that Lolo's fault? I don't think so.

What goes into what makes a story, what draws people to someone as far as popular culture goes, is more than just T & A, it is the whole package. All of Weider's cover people of his heyday, the reality is he had Arnold and Betty (yeah, Betty's figure alone, at that time, put her over the top) and the rest were just also-rans who were uninspiring eye candy (but just enough for kids to buy the magazines).

I suspect that Holley has had her 15 minutes of fame, unless she can improve a lot in the future. Yes, she got more than her share of stories because it was novel, she had spunk, she broke stereotypes, etc, but I don't think it will have any lasting power. Unless she proves herself with results, she is a One Hit Wonder and a sports marketing footnote.

I still say that more people know about Olympic Weightlifting because of her.

Kim, I don't buy that we are as base as Joe Weider thought. In today's world, you need it all. Maybe Hugh Hefner had it closer. After all, the term "girl next door" alone implies intangibles that are part of the "it factor".

[Kim Wood]

well, amigo we ARE as base as Joe Weider thinks we are...
(but giving props to Hefner shows you are sharp)(and shows
you know a lot about Weider)
The Olympics are a great propaganda vehicle for the good life.
What a fun fantasy...good looking boys and girls...
doing almost super-human things. Everyone's happy and optimistic
('cept that poor Maroney gymnastic girl that fell on the vault)
about the future...great TV(highest ratings ever)...great show.

(of course, there are cracks in egg...and harsh realities
(Holley's gonna look in the mirror one morning and the
dreams are gonna be over) will shine though...
those nice Iranians? in the next few months we'll probably
be trying to kill them...
For the smart members of this forum(and there doesn't seem
to be too many) I recommend a book: "Little Girls in Pretty
Boxes" by Joan Ryan ... it's not about weightlifters nor
strongmen but little gymnastic girls that are training
for the Olympics...check-out what's behind those smiles.
Check-out what dreams are made of... )

And Mike(a good friend of mine is a good friend of Misty May...
she wrote a book with Misty. I was over at "facebook" tonight
and Jill posted some Misty May photos...I checked 'em out...
seems the photos were part of Misty's private facebook page...
well, there were more photos...GONK! ...from her private collection...let's leave it with Misty and Dawn tied...)

[Randall Strossen]

I'm no track expert but the one time I went to the indoor US nationals, Lolo Jones was one of the athletes who caught my eye and I understand why there is all this buzz about her—after Beijing, I hoped she'd get the gold and when I read about the days leading up to her race and its results, it seemed like a lot of raw stuff was coming out. Do you think the story got to her and hurt her performance?

Yes about the publicity surrounding Holley, but I'll keep saying it: so now they have a rotten image of a sport they never knew about, and that's a big step backwards.

Look at it this way: suppose someone hadn't heard about grippers and then they met some GOPD poster boy who raved on and on about doglegs, seasoning, calibration, RGCs, phantom 4s, mutant 4s, TNS, MMS and the all purpose etc.

Would you say that was great because now they knew about grippers and they hadn't before? Or would you say, Really too bad that they think this is what grippers is all about.

For me, it's a slamdunk that we're right back to the Woody Allen joke because who'd want to be in that club?

[Mike Corlett]

I'm no track expert but the one time I went to the indoor US nationals, Lolo Jones was one of the athletes who caught my eye and I understand why there is all this buzz about her—after Beijing, I hoped she'd get the gold and when I read about the days leading up to her race and its results, it seemed like a lot of raw stuff was coming out. Do you think the story got to her and hurt her performance??

I don't.

Lolo had some serious spinal tethering surgery in 2011. She was not running well prior to the June Olympic Trials. She squeaked through and made 3rd at the Trials, going to the Olympics. She was steadily improving, but not to her old form. She was running in Europe after the trials, with mixed results. At the Olympics, she seemed to get better and better. In the Final, where she got 4th, she had her best of the Season. I think she did a good job of focusing, coming back, and was "having a good time" with the attention and publicity. The 3 that finished ahead of her had Olympic Records, Seasonal Bests, and Personal Bests, depending on who they were. She didn't offer her surgery as an excuse. After it was all over, she seemed to take the disappointment too personally. Nothing to be ashamed of with what she did, it just was not quite enough.

Just a little bit different than the other stuff we have spoken about on this Thread...