Kaz curling feats

[Sam Scott]

• In 1986, the Kaz set a world record for the dumbbell curl: 400 pounds.

I also read somewhere that he straight-bar curled 315 for 15 reps, and 505 for 1 rep. There's no video that I know of showing this, so it might might be a myth. Sure seems like it.

[Steve Gardener]

a DUMBBELL curl of 400lbs? And a few reps, even 15, with 315lbs does not become 500+ on this planet. Google 'strict curl' records. Few if any get over 200 and the heavyweight record is around 250 or so.

[Elliot Storey]

According to the man himself these curling feats took place at Buddy Dukes powerlifting meet (500 witnesses) in 1986. There was a bet proposed by Richard Sandland that he could press behind the neck his own bodyweight (225) for more reps than Kaz could power curl with his own bodyweight (315). Keep in mind this is spur of the moment, and this is 1986 - I don't know about powerlifting (his record total was set in 1981), but his last WSM was 1982 - so safe to say he's four or five years away from his peak (I think his word was "slouch" that he used for his shape then).

So Sandland gets things started with 225 behind the neck for 13 reps. Kaz follows with 315x15 then 365x2 and 400x1 - he thinks he was good for around 460-475 fresh, but never did it.

Amazing!

[Elliot Storey]

a DUMBBELL curl of 400lbs? And a few reps, even 15, with 315lbs does not become 500+ on this planet. Google 'strict curl' records. Few if any get over 200 and the heavyweight record is around 250 or so.

Good points - the 500 was never done, and they were not strict.

[Steve Gardener]

I have seen some crazy numbers suggested for arm wrestlers. One such claim was made by a GB member. I pointed out his - typical for arm wrestlers - is a very short back and forth movement (looks like the style used by plate spinners on stage) designed to work tendon strength. The weight barely, if at all, is curled in any manner we'd recognize. A rare few have done what is termed a 'table top curl' but even this involves a sort of levering the weight into a position from which it might be curled. A 100lbs is considered world class.

Regardless, when typed as was, we do not think of these almost pretend movements as what we know to be a curl, even with loose form. Thus while I might believe that an on form and at his peak strength Kaz, weighing 320lbs+, MAY have cheat curled 315lbs for a few reps I KNOW it was never done strictly nor did he even 'reverse clean' (as some cheat curls have been termed) 500+.

Sam, like many using forums, seems all too ready to copy and paste a claim without either giving it a moments thought or a few minutes research. Just yesterday some asked why the Mr O wasn't on TV and someone else replied that they could see it via a webcast. Rather than google 'Mr O webcast' the next reply was 'where?'. It only took moments via google to find it (BB.com). Less than to post and ask 'where?'. This is of the same ilk. Why look when some **** fool can do it for you regardless of the effort in asking? Seems daft to me. Hell Sam even implies it might be a made up claim.

Finally, why I despise some it does, one rule of a certain site or two, has it thus 'if the claim does not come with photo or video said topic will be locked'. I think a 315 x 15 or a 500+ would be worthy of a photo or some kind of proof.

[Elliot Storey]

I have seen some crazy numbers suggested for arm wrestlers. One such claim was made by a GB member. I pointed out his - typical for arm wrestlers - is a very short back and forth movement (looks like the style used by plate spinners on stage) designed to work tendon strength. The weight barely, if at all, is curled in any manner we'd recognize. A rare few have done what is termed a 'table top curl' but even this involves a sort of levering the weight into a position from which it might be curled. A 100lbs is considered world class.

Regardless, when typed as was, we do not think of these almost pretend movements as what we know to be a curl, even with loose form. Thus while I might believe that an on form and at his peak strength Kaz, weighing 320lbs+, MAY have cheat curled 315lbs for a few reps I KNOW it was never done strictly nor did he even 'reverse clean' (as some cheat curls have been termed) 500+.

Sam, like many using forums, seems all too ready to copy and paste a claim without either giving it a moments thought or a few minutes research. Just yesterday some asked why the Mr O wasn't on TV and someone else replied that they could see it via a webcast. Rather than google 'Mr O webcast' the next reply was 'where?'. It only took moments via google to find it (BB.com). Less than to post and ask 'where?'. This is of the same ilk. Why look when some **** fool can do it for you regardless of the effort in asking? Seems daft to me. Hell Sam even implies it might be a made up claim.

Finally, why I despise some it does, one rule of a certain site or two, has it thus 'if the claim does not come with photo or video said topic will be locked'. I think a 315 x 15 or a 500+ would be worthy of a photo or some kind of proof.

It would be great if someone who was there posted on here and confirmed, but I received my information over the phone. My ears were 99.9% sure it was Bill Kazmaier, but without some voice-recognition software coupled with DNA match, I guess I can't be sure...called from his number though...I need more proof.

[Craig T. Covington]

I have no doubt that Kaz could have curled 400 lbs. If you watch the old WSM contests, when most people were heaving the logs up to their chests for the overhead press, Kaz was practically curling them up in fairly strict style and then he'd press them overhead with strict form. He's Da Man!

[Kent Martin]

I don't know where it took place but Kaz is credited with the world record barbell curl at 440 lbs from 1985.
Besides the 400 lb curl done at Buddy Dukes meet, Jean-Pierre Brulois said that he and the other competitors saw Kaz curl 400 while in Hungary for the 1988 World's Strongest Man contest, and Jamie Reeves described him doing fairly strict curls with 70 kg(155 lb) dumbbells during a workout in 1992
A while back Kaz told me he once curled 315 for 23 reps in a very loose, cheating style.

[Steve Gardener]

We've seen (photos are available) one of the Barbarian Twins doing a loose 150+ dumbbell curl (across the body hammer style - I myself have done 90+). We also have a 'loose' (by his own admission and as I said it might be) 315lbs for reps and a claimed 400 but 500?? One suspects it's Chinese Whispers - in that the story, once told, grew bigger with retelling.

[Florian Kellersmann]

I've never seen a 45kg strict full range db curl.

By the way, Rob Vigeant Jr. is looking for someone doing that feat and give 100$ for him, doing it correctly according to his sample video. He's still waiting...

[Steve Gardener]

I've never seen a 45kg strict full range db curl.

By the way, Rob Vigeant Jr. is looking for someone doing that feat and give 100$ for him, doing it correctly according to his sample video. He's still waiting...

45kg is 99lbs. To be fair nor have I (hence my not claiming it LOL). Proper competition quality curls are usually done upper back and hips against a wall or similar and are VERY hard. But those pointing out Kaz's potential feats aren't saying he did them in that style either. Anyway... do you have a link to RV's video?

[Pete Berg]

Here is Magnus Samuelsson with a big curl


http://sp4.fotolog.com.br/photo/36/32/103/vitz/1074997443_f.jpg

[Steve Gardener]

Rubber bumpers - what do they weigh typically?

[Pete Berg]

It depends but sense he is from Sweden I would guess the bar is loaded with one 10 kilo and 3, 20 kilo plates a side for a total of 160 kilos or 352 lbs. Bumbers are hard to tell there weight but this would be my guess.

[Sam Scott]

Talking about strict curls, Kinney use to perform them seated against the wall with 95KG.

[stephen murray]

Back in the early nineties Anton Boucher(spelling?) came to our gym while in Scotland competing and he did a sort of lifting demonstration,he did seated single arm concentration curls with our 50kg(110) dumbells ,in a fairly strict style ,very impressive arm strength.

[Steve Gardener]

Talking about strict curls, Kinney use to perform them seated against the wall with 95KG.

Nope. No prove it ever happened. What you meant was 'it is reputed that Kinney...' etc.

[Elliot Storey]

Nope. No prove it ever happened. What you meant was 'it is reputed that Kinney...' etc.


Time to let it go dude. Some things actually did happen without video or photo documentation. I just took a sip of diet coke. No really, I did. Wait, there's no video of it, maybe I didn't...

[James Amos]

Not to reignite this debate but before flying out on holiday last week I purchased a copy of Flex. One page re-capped on a historical article where Gunter Schlierkamp and Kevin Levrone curled 405lbs on a bar together (see attached).

Now I know we like to think bodybuilders are not 'traditionally' known for their strength but these guys don't exactly look like they are slouches!

Three things i noticed.

1. Gunter looks like he is struggling (this may be down to height / arm length diference against the shorter Kevin).
2. Its clearly a cheat curl
3. This is a similar weight to the claimed Kaz curl

Surely if two guys of that kind of stature struggle at this weight, it is fair to say that even the great Kaz is unlikely to be successful in the lift?

We are talking over a 180kg curl!

Take this article for example;

http://www.ironmind.com/ironmind/opencms/Articles/2010/Jun/Magnus_Samuelsson-100_kg_for_Curls_Doesnxt_Feel_Like_a_Lot_To_Me.htm l

Samuelsson, who’s also been dubbed the owner of The World’s Strongest Arms claims 15 reps at 100kg in the curl is 'nothing' for him.

This might suggest he is capable of a 150kg one rep max? Do i think he is capable of it? I'd sure like to see him try! And when he does I want to be there ready with my camera!

[Randall Strossen]

I think a lot of this just comes down to how strict the movement was - Magnus Samuelsson would be the first to say that his curls are not done back to a wall, even if they are not wholly uncontrolled cheat curls.

Maybe someone knows for sure, but I'd guess that strict curls north of about 115 kg would be very rare.

[Dave Lemanczyk]

I know a few guys that can curl 225 for reps. Never really thought it was a big deal until I read this thread.

[Steve Gardener]

As do I. It's not common but is done - Chris James for example can do it.

[Doug Carroll]

A couple considerations regarding the strict curl.

From some of the videos I've seen posted of "strict curl" contest, I wasn't empressed at all. Yes the back was against the wall however, when the lifter started his curl his elbows came up, lessening the stress on the bicep and using the shoulder as a front raise.

I always thought a strict curl was, back straight,arms atraight, elbows in at the side, and the weight curled straight up.

You can have your back against the wall all you want, but if you're lifting your elbows up, you might as well be swinging the weight up.

In the early 80s I new Gene Fisher in San Diego. Gene competed against ther best in the world in curl contest in the 60s. he's credited with 209@181, and 225@199. These were not "strict curl" contest but "curl" contest. The other thing is these contest were done on a regular olympic bar, not an ez curl bar.

Regardless of how strong somone is, I think we can all agree, curling on an ez bar is just that, easier then curling on a straight bar.

In Dale Harder's "Strength & Speed" he has some big numbers recorded and he also distinguishes between strict and curl. Once again though, The "strict" contest are done on an ez bar.

Back to Gene Fisher, Gene told me one of the reasons he could curl so much was that, as he began the curl he would shrug up with his traps, lessing the resistence on the biceps.

Just some food for thought.

Ok one more. In the 1980 I was stationed briefly in Washington DC. One night in the weight room I saw this dude with some of the biggest thickest arms I'd ever seen. Watching him curl, he would bend over at the waist, start the curl as he was standing erect. Asking him about that technique, he said he tried to curl as srtrict as possible but at least one day e week he did these heavy overloads. Made sense, save the back from excessive arching by using momentum in the beginning.

[George Phipps]

Isaw John Jacobs curl 315 for 5 reps here in Reno when he was a member of the Power Team, a Christian strogman group. John also broke two pairs of police cert. hand cuffs. Amazing power to say the least. If anyone doubts the hand cuff feat, the Reno police dept. provided the cuffs, brand new out of the box.

George

[Patrick Povilaitis]

With all due respect, the Power Team breaks Die Cast cuffs. I will have to keep my eye on their schedule. I will bring along some legit Smith and Wesson or Peerless cuffs for them to break, as I know collectors who would pay a mint for verified legitimate broken handcuffs. I would even split the money with them. Ain't gonna happen, I guarantee.

[Randall Strossen]

Pat -

If you have a minute, please say a little more about this.

For instance, are you saying they switched the handcuffs or is that that some police departments use handcuffs that are pretty easy to break?

Maybe we have some PD guys or others who practice/perform traditional feats of strength who could comment on this, too?

Thanks much.

[Patrick Povilaitis]

Randy,

Most likely they supplied the cuffs to one of the PD guys and told him to say these are regulation cuffs blah blah blah. Maybe in this case it was Reno 911.

I doubt any reputable PD would actually use weak cuffs, lives would be on the line.



Pat -

If you have a minute, please say a little more about this.

For instance, are you saying they switched the handcuffs or is that that some police departments use handcuffs that are pretty easy to break?

Maybe we have some PD guys or others who practice/perform traditional feats of strength who could comment on this, too?

Thanks much.

[Steve Gardener]

Pat -

If you have a minute, please say a little more about this.

For instance, are you saying they switched the handcuffs or is that that some police departments use handcuffs that are pretty easy to break?

Maybe we have some PD guys or others who practice/perform traditional feats of strength who could comment on this, too?

Thanks much.

As an example of some of the tricks used Dennis Rodgers did a short film, which can be seen on youtube, showing how many tear books etc in ways which are easier than others. I myself use the break back technique as the length ways tear I've never been able to do. He mentions (I'd heard of it before) that some dry out and even bake books for tearing. There's a site which shows how sandstone slabs and rocks were soaked over night and then allowed to try just so no damp spots can be seen on the surface.

Truth be known it's as much entertainment, showmanship and motivation as it is strength. I always include things some in the crowd might do along with things they almost certainly cannot.

[Chris Rice]

If one has to perform night after night - serious max effort feats of strength would take quite a toll on the body. And the Christian strong man shows sometimes do take some liberties. I talked to the "Power Team" guys when they performed here and yes they do often bake their phone books - coil smaller steel bars than their limit etc - they did a simple coil of 1/2" hot roll 5' long - something of no real difficulty but I doubt many if any in the crowd knew the difference. It is a "show" with the purpose of a faith based calling and the average fan in the crowd has no idea of the difficulty level of various steel bars, cards, books etc. Absolutely nothing wrong with that in the context it is being done I feel. I have no doubt many of these guys are capable of what we would consider some quite serious feats of strength if needed.

[George Phipps]

I hate to burst your bubble, but I personally know several of the guys at Reno PD and the cuff that John broke were the real thing. Jacobs has broken both wrist and even severed an artery broking the cuffs. Mike Dixion who was a bodybuilder in the seventies also broke real cuffs. There are several stories that police departments tell of women breaking cuffs when they were high on PCP, which tells me that it is not only possible, but do able for a highly trained strength athlete. By the way I was there and you could hear the links break from 40 feet away.

George

[Steve Gardener]

I've never baked my books. Indeed the last few times I did they were supplied for me rather than by me. As an aside we put the scissors for the ribbon cutting (it was a grand opening) inside the book. Because it was my first one of the day I had to swap it about rather than, as when warmed up, a big dramatic explosion.

To be fair, as I was before, some of what I think is tough and special is not what impresses crowds. It's also crowd dependent. My last show was in a gym so weights were used more. At non gym user shows my nail bending, easy for me, seems to impress the most.

[Randall Strossen]

George -

Interesting - thanks much. I think the bodybuilder you are referring to is Mike Dayton and I saw him perform more than once.

When I was in graduate school, Uri Geller was getting quite a bit of attention as he reputedly bent spoons, etc. using his psychic powers. After Geller was tested at SRI, however, the observation was made that the more closely Geller was monitored, the weaker his psychic powers got.

[Patrick Povilaitis]

George -

Interesting - thanks much. I think the bodybuilder you are referring to is Mike Dayton and I saw him perform more than once.

When I was in graduate school, Uri Geller was getting quite a bit of attention as he reputedly bent spoons, etc. using his psychic powers. After Geller was tested at SRI, however, the observation was made that the more closely Geller was monitored, the weaker his psychic powers got.

Agreed, no disrespect intended to anyone but my bubble is intact. Broken wrists, severed arteries.....guess he had EMT's on scene to prevent the bleed out.

We can all believe what we choose to believe, but this feat would need to be independently documented. If it were being done for real it already would have been.

[George Phipps]

There were 5 thousand people there, and two of Reno's finest standing right next to him. John broke hand cuffs three night in a row, and the last night he broke two pairs at once. There were dozens of cops there who could'nt believe it either, but they became believers when the cuffs broke. Why is it hard to believe that a man 6'1 and 320 lbs. can break hand cuffs, when guys bend quarters, rail spikes, break baseball bats, and pull air planes and trains? John used duct tape to wrap wrists to help prevent his wrist from being broken, the heavy duct tape also protected his arteries.

Oh well, you can believe what you want, but if a small woman high on PCP can break cuffs, so can a highly trained strongman, especially one who loves God.

George

[George Phipps]

Randy,

You're right it was Mike Dayton. Mike used to do some crazy stuff back in the day. He was injuried pretty badly more than once.

By the way I love Nevada city and Grass Valley, in fact I was at Friar Tucks two weeks ago. My family and I come down and boat on Scotts Flat. We also go to Bullard Bar every year. Maybe on of these days I can take you out to dinner?

Keep up the great work.

George

[Rick Walker]

There were 5 thousand people there, and two of Reno's finest standing right next to him. John broke hand cuffs three night in a row, and the last night he broke two pairs at once. There were dozens of cops there who could'nt believe it either, but they became believers when the cuffs broke. Why is it hard to believe that a man 6'1 and 320 lbs. can break hand cuffs, when guys bend quarters, rail spikes, break baseball bats, and pull air planes and trains? John used duct tape to wrap wrists to help prevent his wrist from being broken, the heavy duct tape also protected his arteries.

Oh well, you can believe what you want, but if a small woman high on PCP can break cuffs, so can a highly trained strongman, especially one who loves God.

George

George-

I don't know you from Adam, but I do know Pat. The things he is capable of doing with steel and his hands are unmatched by 99.99999999% of the population. When Pat speaks on the subject, people tend to listen and if he claims this is not possible, I tend to take his word on it.

With the amount of experience that Pat has with steel, I would say he is pretty much an authority on this.

:;tu)



especially one who loves God

:rolleyes:

[Randall Strossen]

George -

Thanks much! Friar Tuck's is a great place - we like to eat on the bar side, in case you've never tried that.


All -

. . . so my advisor (an eminent research psychologist), who had put himself through college (where he was a physics major) by working as a professional magician, said that if you really wanted to see if Uri Geller was on track, you needed to have a magician, a physicist and a research psychologist involved in the evaluation: magicians know how you can fool people into thinking they saw something that didn't happen, physicists are experts in the realties of the forces involved, and the research psychologist would know what conclusions could legitimately be drawn, given the research design.

A couple of pretty simple magic tricks will allow just about anyone to convince most people that he can bend quarters - think of what David Copperfield could do if he were a performing strongman instead of a performing magician?! Breaking handcuffs would be child's play for him.

None of this is to say that people can't do amazing things or that an unwavering belief in God is anything but an octane booster, but it's also true that while fake lifts might not be as common as exaggerated PRs, there is no shortage of them, either.

[Rick Walker]

Good stuff Randy!

David Blaine, or Chris Angel, not sure which one, picked up the back of a Taxi cab on one of his TV specials/street shows.

This was just a straight pick up...no deadlift apparatus attached or nothing.

Not sure how many have attempted to pick up a full sized car by the bumper, but it is basically impossible. Even more so for a svelte guy like Chris Angel. The weight isn't even the hardest part...the grip on the **** car is!

I wish a strong dude would have been there to call him out on that...

[Rick Walker]

Case in point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef2hX3Ocwj4

Several people witnessed this...does it make it fact??

[George Phipps]

Great posts everyone. I especially like the fact that everyone is respectful. I can see everyone's point, and if John was not breaking real cuff's it is a fraud. Especially in front of people who believe you are. It would be aweful to misrepresent God in front of so many, as a pastor I would never imbelish stories that were not true to try to share God with others. I know this happens all the time, and I have no stomach for it.

Great forum guys.

George

[Craig T. Covington]

I saw the Power Team back in the late 1980s and was very disappointed. I volunteered to help them set up the stunts and learned more than I wanted to. The blocks of ice that they broke were prepared in advance so they hed cracks in them and were easier to break. My friend and I loaded a "400 lb." refrigerator onto one of the guys' backs. It had no motor and weighed nowhere near 400 lbs. I'm not saying these guys can't do what they claim because a lot of you guys can legitimately do things I can't even come close to doing. I am saying they didn't do it on those nights. It's bad enough to lie about what you're doing but it's even worse when you do it in the name of God. But, hey, that's entertainment!

[Steve Friedrich]

I have a good friend,who's into the martial arts, tell me all sorts of tricks that are used at exhibitions.

[Randall Strossen]

George -

Thanks much for being such a gentleman . . . by the way, Lefty's Grill is another place you might enjoy in Nevada City.

[George Phipps]

Thanks Randy I will give it a try.

I can understand being an entertainer, like David Cooperfield, but I can't understand men misrepresenting God and what they are doing in His name. I just hate that ****, but I realize this is the world in which we live. That is one of the great things about powerlifting, Olympic lifting and strongman- you picked it up or you didn't, and in the end the best man almost always wins. Thank God for the strength sports.

George

[Wolfgang Hasenmaier]

I saw the Power Team back in the late 1980s and was very disappointed. I volunteered to help them set up the stunts and learned more than I wanted to. The blocks of ice that they broke were prepared in advance so they hed cracks in them and were easier to break. My friend and I loaded a "400 lb." refrigerator onto one of the guys' backs. It had no motor and weighed nowhere near 400 lbs. I'm not saying these guys can't do what they claim because a lot of you guys can legitimately do things I can't even come close to doing. I am saying they didn't do it on those nights. It's bad enough to lie about what you're doing but it's even worse when you do it in the name of God. But, hey, that's entertainment!

Didn`t the shirtless sheriff, James Henderson, only man to bench press 700 + raw and paused in a contest, take part in these Power Team shows? He claimed to be drugfree but had a hefty imprisonment verdict for being a drug dealer. Nonetheless the man is the best raw bencher ever imo. Claimed a believable paused and raw 744 bench press in training. Believable because after his drug tested contest years he gained another 50-100 lbs of solid mass...
http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/b/0/b0775_ORIG-JamesHenderson.jpg

[Craig T. Covington]

Didn`t the shirtless sheriff, James Henderson, only man to bench press 700 + raw and paused in a contest, take part in these Power Team shows? He claimed to be drugfree but had a hefty imprisonment verdict for being a drug dealer. Nonetheless the man is the best raw bencher ever imo. Claimed a believable paused and raw 744 bench press in training. Believable because after his drug tested contest years he gained another 50-100 lbs of solid mass...
http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/b/0/b0775_ORIG-JamesHenderson.jpg
I think James Henderson joined the Power Team not too long after I saw them. They had some other guy bench press 700 lb. but I had no hand in loading the plates or helping out on that lift but after some of the other things I'd seen them do I was skeptical about what the actual weight was. I had no idea about Henderson's imprisonment. That's very interesting. He was a great bencher.

[Doug Carroll]

Wolfgang, this stuf about Henderson and inprisonment is news to me. Is this fact or hearsay ?

And as far as Henderson gaining another 50-100lbs after his drugfree days, thats news to me as well.

I have a cool video of him training on Powerlifter video magazine from the 90s. Simple heavy lifts, dude was huge. I find it kind of hard to believe he gained up to another 100lbs. That would put him between 400-500 lbs.

Is there any proof to all this stuff ?