Hardgainer

[Dave Lemanczyk]

Hardgainer

This is a term that describes anyone who is isn't willing to do what it takes to become more than they are. In order to make noticeable physical progress great sacrifices must be made, a toll must be paid in sweat, blood, pain and tears. Efforts over time produce results that stick.

Anytime I have ever read someone using this term (hardgainer), I immediately know they haven't lived the right way conducive to the success they seek. In addition, I also know they haven't worked hard enough to EARN the results.

[Chris Rice]

If we take say 3 people at the same level - put them in a gym under a good trainer. Each works as hard as possible, eats the same (including supplements), rests the same, no drugs, etc etc - each one will advance and grow at different rates. So at some level two of the three will gain less than the third - so the other two could be classed as "hard(er) gainers". Now this doesn't mean they should use what might be called the hard gainer techniques I have read about. It just means people can and will make different amounts of progress no matter how the other variables are handled. But all will make progress unless there is an underlying health condition or the volume is just out of touch with reality. So I guess "hard gainer" needs explanation or a comparison to a "what" or a "who". And I think we need to include "smart" work targeted to your goal as well as just hard work.

[Dave Lemanczyk]

Here's the problem I have with what you wrote Chris; you are already making excuses for people that do not exist. Secondly, the only supplements necessary are whole food, fruits, vegetables and water. That's it. Thirdly, adequate rest must be take into full consideration. When the proper effort is given over time, everyone makes progress. In continuance, trust me when I say that if someone isn't making progress they are NOT working hard enough or doing the wrong things too often.

For example, every single person I train makes extremely noticeable progress in size, strength and toughness. We use a training frequency that is uncommon in the fitness industry yet the results speak for themselves. If you even utter the word hardgainer over here it would be laughed at. My guys and girls know if they are not making progress it is because they are not doing what I wrote in the initial post. I do it right and teach it right while the people who do not make progress look for a crutch to lean on simply because they are afraid. I made my explanation of what a hardgainer is perceived as and I really don't see the need for all the quotations. Who are you quoting anyway? This is not a debate, I am posting what works. Plain and simple.

[Dan Cenidoza]

Have you read McRobert's stuff, Dave? Because I can assure you, the man that coined the term Hardgainer was not defining it as you are.

[Bob Lipinski]

Hardgainer can be used as a copout, but people do gain at different rates. Some people can build relatively decent or almost impressive strength and size with half ass training, and some people will bust their ass to get where the first group started.

And some people are pussies, but nothing really we can do about that either.

[Dave Lemanczyk]

@ Dan - I think you forgot what it takes to get strong.

@ Bob - Good point man. Your last statement is dead on.

[Randall Strossen]

The term hard gainer far predated Stuart McRobert - it generally referred to guys who were ectomorphs (and to a lesser extent endomorphs) and therefore couldn't gain strength and muscle as easily mesomorphs could.

It has since become a somewhat cult-like label and my feeling is that a lot of what Dave L. and Bob said is spot on.

Not sure how many of you guys might remember the late Anthony Ditillo, but once I was telling him that we (at IronMind) can always spot these guys by their whining and handwringing, as well as their mortal fear of overtraining.

Anthony told me that when they'd call him and complain about not being able to train any more often than once every 29 days or they'd get sore, he yell into the phone, "xxxk you, Xxxk You, XXXX YOU - why don't you never train and then you'll never be sore!"

[Zac K. Phillips]

IMO

Most of the "over training" fears are ****. Granted that striking a balance between training and recovery is important, most people would do better to error on the side of too much effort rather than not enough. Extraordinary results come from extraordinary efforts (thanks Mr.Lewis). Not from being afraid to squat more than once or twice a week. Everyone's recovery rate will change and vary(sometimes weekly depending on what else is going on in your life) But to nail yourself into this ready made template of mediocrity that espouses being afraid of training(rather than focus on better/optimal recovery) and justifying failure over non controllable issues and having THAT be your mantra, is bad mojo.

Most "Hardgainers" I've ever known eat all day and night what I do before noon. This may be the beginning of their problem, but rather focus on this tangible thing, They have their excuse already made for them with this cute label. Mcrobert does make good recommendations about compound movements, but quite honestly thats hardly revolutionary or makes up for the fact that he's also offered the public the least proactive way of dealing with limitations I've heard of and given them a map to , at best , kinda average. With Mcrobert, you live based on your limitations, rather than your limitations having to deal with you redefining what can and cannot be done in your own life. It's just too defeatist for me.

[Dan Cenidoza]

I'm not sure why you are always insinuating that people don't know how to train Dave. Where did you get that in my post? It certainly wasn't in the question that you didn't answer. Not sure what Chris Rice said that deserved the tone you took with him either. You talk a lot about "internet tough guys" but you seem to be the biggest one of them all. If you would actually speak to gentlemen nearing 70 the way you just responded to Chris, I would concede that it's not an internet persona but you're an a$$hole in real life too.

Back to the topic at hand, perhaps McRobert wasn't the one who coined the term "hardgainer" but that's where I first heard it. His whole thing with Hardgainer, as I understood it, was that people who fit into this category needed to train HARDER and be smarter about nutrition and recovery factors.

Sure, some people use it as an excuse but I doubt that is anyone who frequents this board (this is a forum for "serious strength athletes", as the Milo tagline would indicate). Regardless, who cares about the people that don't train hard? Is it even worth the post? Is there an actual audience or is this just grinding an axe?

[Dave Lemanczyk]

@ Dan - If you read what Randy and Zak wrote in regards to McRoberts you would realize that both men have summarized that perfectly. I chose not to respond to what you wrote simply because it was junior.

What is most revealing within what you write Dan is you express a great level of insecurity and looks to me like you are trying to get me to threaten you via the Internet by insulting me. Real weak. You won't get a threat from me mainly because I don't start things, I finish them. Save all the big keyboard tough guy stuff for someone else who will participate Dan. It ain't me and you should know better.

Bottom line is that I am straight and direct with the information I present and if you have a problem with it, too bad. If you don't like it, don't read it and don't post about it. I would imagine more people will have a problem with what I write simply because it hits home with the folks who don't want to make the necessary changes for results. Maybe this is you too perhaps given your response? Even more interesting is how the people that will agree are those without excuses.

This thread is an eye opener to physical training for results plain and simple. I never went ahead and said that "people don't know how to train" as you put it. Chris Rice is a man just like me and regardless of his age if the information he presents is off, I will comment on it. Remember that this IS a forum and he can surely defend himself if he feels the need to. Nowhere in my post to him did I disrespect him. I responded to him, that's it and that's all.

I truly appreciate the feedback so far in this thread. It has been a real eye opener. True colors definitely shining through. Thank you everyone, keep it up. :;tu)

[Randall Strossen]

Anytime we get to the point of talking about who's insecure and making comments about what bad dudes we are, it's a signal that we need to reel things in a little.

So, I think one group is saying that maybe the hardgainer guys need to train harder/smarter and not whine so much, and another perspective is that the hardgainers have some good ideas and let's not go overboard either criticizing them or tooting our own horns.

[Doug Scott]

"Hard-gainer" is only a concern if you (any person) is comparing themselves to someone else "easy-gainer". That should never be a factor in training. As stated earlier, if a person trains "hard' enough, eats "well" enough, and "rests" appropriately, they will improve a great deal (compared to where they started).

Hard-gainer is another term used in our "training culture" that compares one man to another. Focus on self improvement and the term "hard-gainer" is a moot point.

[Matt Ricks]

Over the past 15 years or so, I've ventured around the internet reading various sites/forums including several that champion the term "hard gainer". My take on the current version of "hard gainer" is that although the originator of the idea intended one purpose, people have taken certain aspects of it that fit their agenda and exploited them. For instance, when reading McRobert, I get the impression that his major points are using correct form, listening to the way your body responds to the work, compound exercises, full body workouts, etc. Currently, the feeling I get for most people that champion the term hardgainer is that they have taken the "listening to your body" to the extreme and are limiting the amount of work almost to the point of being "lazy" (for lack of a better word). My belief is that when an individual is not making progress (albeit small), there is most likely additional factors at work (nutrition, rest, etc.)


BTW, is there anybody out there that has made any significant gains that weren't "hard"?

[Dan Cenidoza]

I knew my comments would incite more of your arrogance Dave. I just wanted you to know that your internet persona reminds me of the Madd Rapper from the Notorious BIG albums.

You're about due for another angry facebook status update, aren't you? LOL

[Dave Lemanczyk]

Anytime we get to the point of talking about who's insecure and making comments about what bad dudes we are, it's a signal that we need to reel things in a little.

So, I think one group is saying that maybe the hardgainer guys need to train harder/smarter and not whine so much, and another perspective is that the hardgainers have some good ideas and let's not go overboard either criticizing them or tooting our own horns.

I completely agree. You should know my last response was simply in defense of what had been written about me in a rather aggressive and insulting manner. I am not posting on your board to stir silly nonsense and ask for the trouble of which is finding me. It is what it is and anyone who can read is certainly able to figure all this out.

In addition, this Hardgainer Discussion is a great thread because it really defines the major ingredients that work in a training program. I personally consider much of what matters having to do with specific lifestyle commitments that are conducive to success and the development of an indomitable will. Too often folks get involved with fad programs with cutesy catch phrases and false promises. Hard work will never die. It always works and that is about as absolute as I can ever write or speak in terms of physical training.

[Dave Lemanczyk]

I knew my comments would incite more of your arrogance Dave. I just wanted you to know that your internet persona reminds me of the Madd Rapper from the Notorious BIG albums.

You're about due for another angry facebook status update, aren't you? LOL

There's a lot you don't know about me Dan. For starters, arrogance and confidence are two different things. In continuance, is there really a reason for attempting to string along useless nonsense like this on this thread? Do you need the negative attention stirring up trouble? I really hate to dissapoint you Dan but I do not post angry facebook updates and this isn't a persona. Your post is puzzling on many different levels. Please contribute to this thread in a positive fashion or bring your irrelevent comments elsewhere.

[Randall Strossen]

Hard work will never die.

Great line! :;tu) :;tu)

Actually being an ectomorph, I've never had much patience for the mesomorphs who jumped on the bandwagon and used that Hardgainer label.

[Dave Lemanczyk]

Great line! :;tu) :;tu)

Actually being an ectomorph, I've never had much patience for the mesomorphs who jumped on the bandwagon and used that Hardgainer label.

I can relate. It literally took me decades to get weight to stick in the right places. thanx man.

[Kevin McFadden]

I've read about several people that consider themselves hardgainers even after they have achieved great results. So it is not necessarily a lack of willpower or the need to have an excuse that causes people to label themselves as hardgainers. The certification lists here are perfect examples of that. You have some people that were able to certify with very little effort and specialized training. Others may have worked years towards their goal of certifying. The important thing is that both groups of people did what was necessary to certify (no matter how much effort was necessary).

[Dan Cenidoza]

My favorite author in Hardgainer magazine was Bob Whelan.

[Zac K. Phillips]

BTW, is there anybody out there that has made any significant gains that weren't "hard"?

This is one of the truest things I've ever heard. Testify! As opposed to all those "easy" gains I just soak up, halfheartedly playing around with it, yawn......
Personally I'm a hardgainer/dont have the genetics for double shifts...but for some reason I don't think my boss would care. In school I didn't have the genetics for Trig.....but that just meant I had to study more. It certainly didn't mean I needed to study less....none of what I'm saying is a personal attack on McRobert...I just dont think less and overly cautious is what the not so talented necessarily need to make better gains/progress in any situation.

[Dave Lemanczyk]

That's exactly it guys and as the guys who have positively contributed to this thread know, it takes gut wrenching hard work to build strength. Lots of people either miss the hard work part or fall in love with cardio programs then lose a ton of bodyweight and wonder where their strength went. Getting and staying strong is not an easy thing but it can be if it is understood.

Take me for example, I suffered through a broken back injury during college and then recovered from it to finish out a playing career. I sure could have used that as a crutch, milked out the rest of my basketball scholarship and became a pu**y like the rest of the excuse makers. I didn't. I played the remainder of college and beyond. Yes it hurt but such is life, I had goals and I met them despite some things in the way. Six years later I would be hit by a drunk driver in a rear end accident that should have ended my life. It didn't, I recovered and am still training very hard to the day. I don't believe in excuses simply because that doesn't get results. I too could easily be one to use excuses if I didn't believe in my own ability to overcome obstacles. Fact is, I always believe in myself, even when nobody else does. Winners do this. Everyone has obstacles to overcome. That's why they are there anway. Obstacles can be physical and mental but must be overcome.

For the record, I don't claim to be the be all end all within physical training. From time to time some people will get upset with some of the things I do, say and write simply because I expose things within them that they do not want to face. My job isn't to be everyones friend and anyone who reads this that knows me certainly gets it. I tell the truth of the matter and in addition the only thing I am a master of is myself. Learning how to build and maintain strength will allow almost anyone to do a good job teaching people how to make healthy choices, handle life situations, and make noticeable physical progress. You don't have to use the latest and greatest equipment or techniques appointed by modern gurus and certification programs either. Instead, you can choose to implement good old fashioned hard work and teach adequate body care. It works for the people that are willing to work. Anything worthwhile takes a long time to build and stick.

[Dan Cenidoza]

That's exactly it guys and as the guys who have positively contributed to this thread know, it takes gut wrenching hard work to build strength. Lots of people either miss the hard work part or fall in love with cardio programs then lose a ton of bodyweight and wonder where their strength went. Getting and staying strong is not an easy thing but it can be if it is understood.

Take me for example, I suffered through a broken back injury during college and then recovered from it to finish out a playing career. I sure could have used that as a crutch, milked out the rest of my basketball scholarship and became a pu**y like the rest of the excuse makers. I didn't. I played the remainder of college and beyond. Yes it hurt but such is life, I had goals and I met them despite some things in the way. Six years later I would be hit by a drunk driver in a rear end accident that should have ended my life. It didn't, I recovered and am still training very hard to the day. I don't believe in excuses simply because that doesn't get results. I too could easily be one to use excuses if I didn't believe in my own ability to overcome obstacles. Fact is, I always believe in myself, even when nobody else does. Winners do this. Everyone has obstacles to overcome. That's why they are there anway. Obstacles can be physical and mental but must be overcome.

For the record, I don't claim to be the be all end all within physical training. From time to time some people will get upset with some of the things I do, say and write simply because I expose things within them that they do not want to face. My job isn't to be everyones friend and anyone who reads this that knows me certainly gets it. I tell the truth of the matter and in addition the only thing I am a master of is myself. Learning how to build and maintain strength will allow almost anyone to do a good job teaching people how to make healthy choices, handle life situations, and make noticeable physical progress. You don't have to use the latest and greatest equipment or techniques appointed by modern gurus and certification programs either. Instead, you can choose to implement good old fashioned hard work and teach adequate body care. It works for the people that are willing to work. Anything worthwhile takes a long time to build and stick.

I'm glad you made this thread about you again. Let's talk about it. My problem with this thread and almost all of your posts of late is how you admonish groups of unknown people (hardgainers, gurus, excuse makers, etc.) seemingly looking for an opportunity to talk about yourself. You make posts on a *discussion forum* and anyone who disagrees you flame and say its "not debatable." When people agree you thank them for positively contributing but I challenge you to find one positive thing in your original post! You are all negative almost all the time and the feeling of your posts borders paranoia.

I knew my comments would result in some retaliation from you. That's fine, I guess I deserve it but what you think of me has no bearing on anything that matters in my life. We were friends before this thread and we could be friends after (I ain't mad atcha) I just figured someone should tell you that you really come off as a jerk sometimes. I'm saying all this out of respect. You're a strong guy that can do some pretty awesome things but the way you put yourself out there is a turn off. You won't win any clients (or friends) like that. The training videos you post is the kind of stuff I like to watch with my 3 year old, but I can't because I know you're going to drop the f-bomb and yell at some group of unidentified people. There's just no need to be so angry all the time. I hope you get it figured out.

Take this how you will. I won't comment on it again.

[Dave Lemanczyk]

I'm glad you made this thread about you again. Let's talk about it. My problem with this thread and almost all of your posts of late is how you admonish groups of unknown people (hardgainers, gurus, excuse makers, etc.) seemingly looking for an opportunity to talk about yourself. You make posts on a *discussion forum* and anyone who disagrees you flame and say its "not debatable." When people agree you thank them for positively contributing but I challenge you to find one positive thing in your original post! You are all negative almost all the time and the feeling of your posts borders paranoia.

I knew my comments would result in some retaliation from you. That's fine, I guess I deserve it but what you think of me has no bearing on anything that matters in my life. We were friends before this thread and we could be friends after (I ain't mad atcha) I just figured someone should tell you that you really come off as a jerk sometimes. I'm saying all this out of respect. You're a strong guy that can do some pretty awesome things but the way you put yourself out there is a turn off. You won't win any clients (or friends) like that. The training videos you post is the kind of stuff I like to watch with my 3 year old, but I can't because I know you're going to drop the f-bomb and yell at some group of unidentified people. There's just no need to be so angry all the time. I hope you get it figured out.

Take this how you will. I won't comment on it again.

Dan, here's how it goes since it's hard for you to figure out easy things. This is a thread I started using personal and professional examples of how the title of hardgainer is used as a crutch. You have chosen the Internet to handle something with me of which is real weak. Each one of your posts is another feeble attempt to draw me out into the open of negativity. If you want that much from me, come see me or leave me alone. It's that simple. If you think this is a "persona" ask one of my friends that you know if I am for real or not. Fact is I know what am, who I am and what I am capable of. I am a very happy guy who happens to get under the skin of people due to reasons already disclosed. Your comment about the way I am putting myself out there is your opinion but it's worth a major mention that I DO win clients because of my approach. I don't hold hands here, it's tough love or no love. You couldn't be more wrong about many things. Contribute, stop the Lemanczyk hateraide and grow up.

[Tim Francis]

Getting back to the topic, Hardgainer should really be replaced with the term "undergaining" either from poor training, lack of progression or in most cases undereating.

I find that people who class themselves as a hardgainer are those individuals who have a small body structure or low bodyweight prior to any sort of training.

Lets take a hypothetical underweight teenager weighing 130lbs who starts training, lets assume he has a sensible training schedule, eats plenty of nutritious foods and does everything he could to have optimum muscle growth with little to no fat gain, the rate of muscle gain for most people is probably 10lbs a year at best, at the end of year 1 that 130lb guy will probably weigh 140lbs, still very small by anyones standard, if he keeps up that optimum regime he may have to train 10 years before he gets to the same weight as the average 200lber then maybe another 5 years before he starts to look impressive.

Take an average guy who weighs a lean 200lb before he ever touches a weight, he does exactly the same regime as hypothetical underweight guy and lets assume both achieve exactly the same rate of muscle gain, he really only has to train a year or two before he starts to look muscular and have some good poundages on the bar.

Same rate of muscle gain, but which guy is going to class themselves as a hardgainer?

Hardgainer or overambitious expectations?

[Mike Corlett]

Dan, here's how it goes since it's hard for you to figure out easy things. This is a thread I started ...it's tough love or no love. You couldn't be more wrong about many things. Contribute, stop the Lemanczyk hateraide and grow up.

I met Cenidoza in 2005 at an AOBS dinner. My son is 3 or 4 years younger than Dan. they spent 5 or 6 hours together back then and we usually see him every year. I consider Dan a true stand-up guy and the kind of person who I would consider to be a good role model or big brother to my son. He is also level-headed, knowledgable, and strong.

This is a good thread. I just didn't want anyone to get the wrong idea about Dan.

In 1997, I "trained" my son for two months. He put an inch on his arms in that period of time. The level of training was at best, "medium". He wasn't much interested in weight training. When he took it up in 2005, he attacked it with passion. He has earned every bit of his gains by himself, and the process of getting there has been even better.

[Steve Gardener]

Hardgainer

This is a term that describes anyone who is isn't willing to do what it takes to become more than they are. In order to make noticeable physical progress great sacrifices must be made, a toll must be paid in sweat, blood, pain and tears. Efforts over time produce results that stick.

Anytime I have ever read someone using this term (hardgainer), I immediately know they haven't lived the right way conducive to the success they seek. In addition, I also know they haven't worked hard enough to EARN the results.

A provocative statement Dave. If there's an issue it's thinking like a hardgainer rather than being one.

If, for example, one was an 6 foot plus, 9 stone ectomorph who struggled to eat well then gains will be hard. Equally many suffer from not being patient. Gains of strength and muscle can come slowly but most will, in time, make sufficent progress to be happy. Just not as quickly as they'd like. They can then say 'well Ronnie was X weight and size by now and I'm barely bigger than normal, I must be a hardgainer'. No they are just typical.

[Steve Gardener]

My favorite author in Hardgainer magazine was Bob Whelan.

True!! Loved the celler/basement gym he had. Photos of the various athletes walking around the blocks etc. All good.

[Dan Cenidoza]

True!! Loved the celler/basement gym he had. Photos of the various athletes walking around the blocks etc. All good.

Bob has a nice little gym in DC and has been there for years. Happy to say I hold his gym record for farmers walking around the block :) He had a slogan, "No toning, no chrome, no bull" and was all about hard work. True HIT guy and a great writer (Anybody read his new book, Iron Nation?). That's why the original post in this thread baffled me because the "hardgainer" camp that I know of trains crazy hard. The fact is, people progress at different rates (basically what Chris Rice was saying), thus some people are, harder to gain. That shouldn't be used as an excuse but a reason to train harder, eat more and allow for adequate recovery.

[Dave Heyer]

My opinion is that genetics play a large role in any athletic activity. Yes, hard work will help the "hardgainer", but the "hardgainer" will NEVER achieve ELITE status without great genetics! Individuals with great genetics become the Professional Athletes, not necessarily the hardest workers.
I am sure there are exceptions, but they are rare.

Dave L., I am impressed with what you do. You obviously are a strong individual, and a good trainer. However, you do come across as condescending on many of your posts.

[Dan Cenidoza]

If there's an issue it's thinking like a hardgainer rather than being one.


The more I think about it the more I like this statement. Right on.

[Dave Lemanczyk]

Dave L., I am impressed with what you do. You obviously are a strong individual, and a good trainer. However, you do come across as condescending on many of your posts.

I appreciate your feedback Dave. Interpreting text is all up to the perspective of the reader. My style is direct, consistent, and free from the boosheet. I keep it simple so that people can make it difficult on their own if they choose to. To each his own!

[Dave Lemanczyk]

Many folks don't stick with basic routines long enough for them to work. I have heard of individuals giving something a couple workouts a chance then moving on to the next program (which is typically the all too popular percentage based russian wave lol.) What I know is that by giving something a minimum of a year, everything about a program will be known. A year.

Here's three exercises that if done correctly can provide a foundation of strength for life. Take each listed exercise option to absolute muscular failure, stay focused and give maximum effort. The only stipulation to this routine is that you can certainly take the sandbag carry to failure more than once. KEG CONDITIONING is all about simple training and complex efforts. These three exercise as a routine is a winner that I know you all will enjoy. It works well for the people willing to execute the movements perfectly while giving maximum mental focus. The time of the training session will not be as long as you think.

Jumping Jax (10 minutes straight as a warm up)
Dumbbell Deadlifts
Keg Pushups
Sandbag Carry

[Thomas Heikes]

That sounds like a fun cardio workout, I wish my gym had that stuff since I hate using the cardio equipment doing HIIT cardio all the time. Once the weather warms up here I should just buy the equipment myself and do this at home on my non-lifting days. Thanks for the routine buddy!:;tu)

[Steve Weiner]

That sounds like a fun cardio workout, I wish my gym had that stuff since I hate using the cardio equipment doing HIIT cardio all the time. Once the weather warms up here I should just buy the equipment myself and do this at home on my non-lifting days. Thanks for the routine buddy!:;tu)


If that workout that Dave listed above is done correctly, it is no "fun cardio workout." Sure, there will be cardio benefits, but if it is done correctly, you will be done and lying on the ground after it is all done. If looks very simple in writing, but executing it properly is another thing. You will also get bull-strong from doing it, IF you give it the proper effort and chance to work. Just to pick one exercise out of the bunch, dumbbell deadlifts are very underrated, but they will kick the living snot out of you if done right. Load up a pair of Ironmind Big Boy dumbbells with 10 pound plates until you have half your bodyweight on each dumbbell. Don't stop for 5 minutes or until you hit 40 reps, whichever comes first. Use straps/don't use straps. It does not matter, your hands will be destroyed as well as the rest of your body. At that point, you will wish you were done, but your journey has just begun. Try it, you will like it.

[Thomas Heikes]

Thats what I meant by "fun" LOL! :;lh) I love doing high rep pain training, I am a big beleiver in 20 rep squats. DB deadlift is great, it uses alot more leg than a barbell, its almost like a front squat which is another one of my favs. You could also use a hammer strength shrug plate loaded machine in place of the DB's I have tried that before and it just kills your quads after doing some heavy back squats.

[Thomas Heikes]

Using the big boy DB's is a good idea, I should pick up a pair of those and just bring them to the gym with me. Can you fit enough 10's on each side for 150 lbs?

[Steve Weiner]

Using the big boy DB's is a good idea, I should pick up a pair of those and just bring them to the gym with me. Can you fit enough 10's on each side for 150 lbs?

Easily loaded to 150. I have had them loaded with 10 ten pound standard size plates on each side, which with the bar and collars, totals 210 pounds per dumbbell. That is a stout dumbbell.

[Thomas Heikes]

Wow, thats awesome. I did not know that those could be loaded so heavy. I do alot of DB work for pressing movements and the DB's in my gym only go up to 110. Looks like I can finally start going heavier!! :;cl)

[Dave Lemanczyk]

@ Thomas - I made a pair of dumbbells that are 36" long. They are brutal and can be loaded with a lot of weight. A lot.

[Erick Brown]

Gentlemen,
How about we find a nice place for Dave and Dan to have a nice, frosty, cold one together.
If we're lifting and pushing, we're on the same team.
Let's stay on topic. Don't loose perspective.

[Thomas Heikes]

@ Thomas - I made a pair of dumbbells that are 36" long. They are brutal and can be loaded with a lot of weight. A lot.

Woah, 3 feet long, thats really.......long. :;hy)
Those would be great for one arm rows. I saw a video on Youtube of Matt Kroczaleski doing one arms rows with a 300 lb. dumbbell that had to be close to 3 feet long. I think he calls them "Kroc rows".

[Bob Lipinski]

It's too easy to misread stuff on the internet. Someone who is just really intense, or a natural smartass (my personal flaw), can come across wrong.

I have tried to have a more deliberately mellow internet persona.

[Justin_Paul]

I think that most people's answers to questions relate directly to their life experiences with little effort made to look at the bigger picture.

In theory, hardgainers don't exist. If a person trains hard enough, eats enough of the right foods, and gets the right amount of rest then gains will come.

The trouble is that some people just can't get enough of the last two to make up for the first thing that I listed. That's not necessarily a bad or wrong thing. It's just that their life may not accomodate such intense training. IMO, people need to realize that there is a HUGE difference between being a recreational strength trainer and/or athlete and being a professional. Professional bodybuilders, strongmen, football players, MMA fighters etc life is their body and they often have far more time to devote to hard training and hard resting than most of us do.

So, for them, hardgaining is another word for bad programming. For the rest of us amateurs it's possible.