IronMind Gold Nail Announced

[Randall Strossen]

It's a monster - who's going to be the first to spank this bad boy? Is it doable?

http://www.ironmind.com/ironmind/opencms/Articles/2011/Mar/Introducing_the_IronMind_Gold_Nail-When_Redxs_Not_Enough.html

[Mike Rinderle]

It's a monster - who's going to be the first to spank this bad boy? Is it doable?

http://www.ironmind.com/ironmind/opencms/Articles/2011/Mar/Introducing_the_IronMind_Gold_Nail-When_Redxs_Not_Enough.html


I think Gary (Gazza) Hunt could reverse it to where he could flip it DO and kill it. Maybe 1 or 2 other guys out there That's a monster bar! The 8 3/8" takes DO out of the equation for most of the bending world. Very interesting development.

[Andy Thomas]

It's a monster - who's going to be the first to spank this bad boy? Is it doable?

http://www.ironmind.com/ironmind/opencms/Articles/2011/Mar/Introducing_the_IronMind_Gold_Nail-When_Redxs_Not_Enough.html

WOW!! What a BEAST piece of steel!! Personally, I think that this is an awesome development, I am very excited to see what kind of fire this lights in the bending community.....this will be EPIC for sure. Not only is the diameter of the steel impressive, the overall length of the bar will certainly present a very unique challenge in itself. I am beyond excited! Thank-you for doing this!

[David Wigren]

I just sent an email to express my interest to test this bar.
I think it is doable for the strongest guys. I doubt I personally will have much of a chance on the "Gold Nail". I'm far from the best out there. But my strong side was always the kink/start, and I'm sure that if I can start a Gold Nail, then the strong guys out there will be able to bend one completely. At least with some focused training.

[Chris Rice]

I expected the 3/8" diameter but not this length. I think it will prove a unique challenge this way. My guess (without even seeing one) is that reverse style might offer the better chance for the kink. It will take major flexibility and a certain length of forearm to shoulder width etc to do this monster double overhand. My best personal chance is going to be over my knee with a couple pieces of pipe over the ends as cheater bars :;hy). A great addition to the bending challenge world.

[Daniel Reinard]

Very cool!! May I ask why the 8" length?

I can DO 8" without too much trouble but I'm FAR FAR away from a 3/8" steel bar.

[Randall Strossen]

Very cool!! May I ask why the 8" length?

I can DO 8" without too much trouble but I'm FAR FAR away from a 3/8" steel bar.

Daniel -

Yes, absolutely, glad you asked about the length:

I thought that for guys who are hanging off the ends of a 7" nail, this isn't so different, and for guys with a more traditional hand placement, the extra leverage would offset some of the added girth of this big boy, so it seemed to make sense either way, from that perspective.

Also, even though we are doing this partly in recognition that bending standards and techniques are evolving, there are few things in the strength world as traditional as steel bending, and since all of this goes back to bending nails, I thought that the Gold nail should follow this pattern - bigger and taller than his brothers.

What do you (and other guys, too) think about that, please?

[Andy Thomas]

Daniel -

Yes, absolutely, glad you asked about the length:

I thought that for guys who are hanging off the ends of a 7" nail, this isn't so different, and for guys with a more traditional hand placement, the extra leverage would offset some of the added girth of this big boy, so it seemed to make sense either way, from that perspective.

Also, even though we are doing this partly in recognition that bending standards and techniques are evolving, there are few things in the strength world as traditional as steel bending, and since all of this goes back to bending nails, I thought that the Gold nail should follow this pattern - bigger and taller than his brothers.

What do you (and other guys, too) think about that, please?

I am always up for a challenge, and will pursue this goal no matter what the length of bar. I have seen- on video- several Red roster members bend 3/8 x 8" Spikes unbraced, so I do not think that an 8" bar will be impossible, 8 3/8" actually. Will that 3/8" make a huge difference- time will tell. I do think that this list was intended to be a more difficult challenge, the bar's dimensions prove that. There will be people that bend this bar, how many, who knows. I am just glad that this list will bring out new efforts among the bending elite.

[Paul Knight]

It's perfect ... how soon can I buy some?

[Daniel Reinard]

Daniel -

Yes, absolutely, glad you asked about the length:

I thought that for guys who are hanging off the ends of a 7" nail, this isn't so different, and for guys with a more traditional hand placement, the extra leverage would offset some of the added girth of this big boy, so it seemed to make sense either way, from that perspective.

Also, even though we are doing this partly in recognition that bending standards and techniques are evolving, there are few things in the strength world as traditional as steel bending, and since all of this goes back to bending nails, I thought that the Gold nail should follow this pattern - bigger and taller than his brothers.

What do you (and other guys, too) think about that, please?

I like the idea of following a traditional pattern like nail size. IMO the 8 3/8" will offer a unique challenge to many DO benders as this length is typically not practiced so flexibilty and power at ones wide range will be an issue. Heck, the length will challenge all styles of bending. I'm not sure what to think on the 'poundage' of a 8 3/8"x3/8" bar, whether the length will bring the rating down too far making it maybe too doable. Or maybe if the bar was too hard and with the added length it may be too difficult considering the awkwardness of a long bar and weakness in that length range. So as all your bars, picking a hardness of steel would be the key to making it a good Gold Nail. It should be harder than average store bought 3/8" CRS but not freakishly hard. I like the idea of this size bar. It's new, follows traditions, challenges all forms and mechanics of people's bodies, and would make a great chase for any steel bender who's on a quest to bend everything.

[Andy Thomas]

I have already started training with 8 3/8" stock as I am sure others have. The 3/8" diameter is a ways off, but so was the Red Nail at one point.......

[Daniel Reinard]

I have already started training with 8 3/8" stock as I am sure others have. The 3/8" diameter is a ways off, but so was the Red Nail at one point.......

:;st) I knew you would be at it same day getting whatever work you can in on it.

Something I've been doing for awhile is use 7.5"+ bars for warmup bends. They aren't hard steel, just something to get a stretch going. Helped me a ton when I felt my flexibility go down when only training 7" bars. Keeps the pecs and anterior stabilizers from tensing up a whole bunch.

[Perry Glover]

The length will present a new challenge for anyone. I am assuming you are keeping the rules the same...the same 1min time limit and no bracing allowed? Braced bending this wouldn't be nearly as challenging. I have no doubt Gary Hunt could take this down as I've seen him do shorter thicker bars in both reverse and double underhand styles. A few others may have a good shot it as well but it'll be a short list like the #4.

[Ben Edwards]

Very interesting news about the Gold Nail! I sincerely wish my shoulder was up for it because I'd be bending 8" bars from now until I hammered it out of the park. I think it will fall for someone before the end of the year. Might not be in the 1-minute time limit but it'll be done. Then they'll work on tightening up the time until it's within the time limit.

Dr. Strossen, is the time limit going to be 1 minute for a bar of this caliber?

[David Wigren]

I've also changed my training now to prepare for it. I think this will bring alot of people out of the woodworks. Alot of successful benders of recent years might want to get on this and start training for it.

[Randall Strossen]

Wanted to thank everyone for their enthusiasm about the Gold Nail!

Have to say that when Casey first mentioned a tougher nail, it struck a chord at IronMind, so the next task was to run through the options in terms of likely specs. After settling on what we thought would do the trick, the finished product looked pretty staggering, so after IronMind publicly announced the Gold Nail, I told Andy what a tough time I'd had biting my tongue on what we had been working on - the whole thing happened fast and the result was exciting.

Anyway, we will be sending out the Gold Nails to the Beta test group within a few days and I will be very interested to hear what you guys think.

I'll go back now and answer questions posted since yesterday afternoon.

[Randall Strossen]

It's perfect ... how soon can I buy some?


Paul -

We expect to be sending out the Gold Nails to the Beta test guys within a few days and then once we get their feedback and make the final decision, we could be in production within another few days.

Thanks much for asking - with your talent and drive, I'm wondering if you're thinking about doing the big double: CoC No. 4 and Gold Nail, too?!

[Randall Strossen]

The length will present a new challenge for anyone. I am assuming you are keeping the rules the same...the same 1min time limit and no bracing allowed? Braced bending this wouldn't be nearly as challenging. I have no doubt Gary Hunt could take this down as I've seen him do shorter thicker bars in both reverse and double underhand styles. A few others may have a good shot it as well but it'll be a short list like the #4.


Perry -

Yes, that's the idea - same rules (including the time limit) as on the Red Nail, just taking things up another level with a new, even tougher challenge for the guys who are looking beyond the Red Nail.

[Randall Strossen]

Very interesting news about the Gold Nail! I sincerely wish my shoulder was up for it because I'd be bending 8" bars from now until I hammered it out of the park. I think it will fall for someone before the end of the year. Might not be in the 1-minute time limit but it'll be done. Then they'll work on tightening up the time until it's within the time limit.

Dr. Strossen, is the time limit going to be 1 minute for a bar of this caliber?


Ben -

Yes on the time limit as the idea (at least at this end!) was to use the same rules as we use for the Red Nail.

Perry asked about this, too, so please let us know what you think about this - the Beta test group guys will be weighing in on all aspects of the Gold Nail, but what we are trying to present from IronMind's side is a challenge in the same spirit and tradition as the Red Nail, only tougher.

Incidentally, when you see the Gold Nail in person compared to the Red Nail, the "only tougher" part will probably go without saying.

[Carl Donati Jr]

This is great news! :;tu) Literally made my day after reading the announcement - had a pretty messed up day though.

[Ben Edwards]

Ben -

Yes on the time limit as the idea (at least at this end!) was to use the same rules as we use for the Red Nail.

Perry asked about this, too, so please let us know what you think about this - the Beta test group guys will be weighing in on all aspects of the Gold Nail, but what we are trying to present from IronMind's side is a challenge in the same spirit and tradition as the Red Nail, only tougher.

Incidentally, when you see the Gold Nail in person compared to the Red Nail, the "only tougher" part will probably go without saying.
Sounds very tough, but that's what you're going for of course. I would've thought 3 minutes or 2 at the very least - just because of the significantly increased difficulty of the bend.

Then again, I'm not certified and my opinion doesn't count as much as those that are - although most of the newer certified guys know me as someone that was destroying Reds in Ironmind pads. Often 5" Reds in well under the 1-minute time limit.

[David Wigren]

Then again, I'm not certified and my opinion doesn't count as much as those that are - although most of the newer certified guys know me as someone that was destroying Reds in Ironmind pads. Often 5" Reds in well under the 1-minute time limit.

I can vouch for that. I remember about almost 3 years ago when I was working on bending the 5.5" red/bastard in Ironmind pads. I was really struggling to get it under 1 minute. And then you posted a video of you destroying a 5" then a 6" and finally a 7" in that order with a disturbing easy to it haha. Right then and there you became my personal hero:;st)

[Casey Emery]

Wow, this is great news ! I will let Paul take a shot at mine.

[David Wigren]

Wow, this is great news ! I will let Paul take a shot at mine.

I bet Paul will murder it. But please, and I say this to everyone, that when Paul destroys this thing, don't let that affect your opinion about the difficulty of the nail. Paul is probably better at bending than he is on grippers and grip in general (if you can believe that) He is an absolute monster.

[Randall Strossen]

Casey & David -

With what you guys said as an intro, I'd say that IronMind would be happy to send Paul a Gold Nail of his own to blast through if he'd like.

With that kind of buildup, Paul's feedback is something we'd like to get.

[Jedd Johnson]

Paul is awesome.

Not only is he a high performer, but he is also an outstanding coach.

Jedd

[Andy Thomas]

Some of us have a friendly wager on who would be the first to actually bend the Gold nail, and the OVERWHELMING favorite was Paul. I agree with David's comment 100%, please don't let Paul's pending destruction of the Gold nail influence your opinion on the difficulty of this bar. I believe I read on YouTube once that, "Superman wears Paul Knight underwear..":;nw)

I thought that David Wigren would be one of the very first to bend the Gold...no disrespect to PK.:;st)

[Robb Barrette]

PAW Knight is a beast. I once heard a story that he pinch lifted a 88 pound child out of a small well. Unreal.

[David Wigren]

PAW Knight is a beast. I once heard a story that he pinch lifted a 88 pound child out of a small well. Unreal.

No actually he pinched and lifted the well out of the ground, haha.
I'm not sure if Paul Knight will appreciate all the pressure we're putting on him. But really, Paul will have the best shot at bending it.

[Randall Strossen]

The Gold Nails are going out today and should be in everyone's hands next week.

Let's see what you guys think!

[Andy Thomas]

The Gold Nails are going out today and should be in everyone's hands next week.

Let's see what you guys think!

That is FANTASTIC!! While I have NO expectation of actually bending this in the near future- I am a long way away from 3/8" CRS unbraced- I can not wait to assess the official dimensions, wrap it up in IMPs and do some isos! I really believe that David and Paul have legitimate shots to bend the samples. This is going to get REAL interesting, REAL quick. I think this will be great for the bending world!

[David Wigren]

Randall, do you think it will get to me over in Sweden by next week?
If so I'm going to stop all training now and rest until it gets here. I've been training like a madman for this:D, although the training has been a bit extensive and I've suffered some light deep tissue pain in my right palm. Fortunately it's nothing that hinders my strength performance. So my chances of doing some damage on the gold are just as big or small as they would without the sensitive palm.
It's going to be interesting for sure how hard this will be. I've bent some easy 80D that were pretty much 8 3/8x3/8", however those 80D's where most likely of softer metal than what the gold will be, which I'm sure will be a MONSTER

[Andy Thomas]

Randall, do you think it will get to me over in Sweden by next week?
If so I'm going to stop all training now and rest until it gets here. I've been training like a madman for this:D, although the training has been a bit extensive and I've suffered some light deep tissue pain in my right palm. Fortunately it's nothing that hinders my strength performance. So my chances of doing some damage on the gold are just as big or small as they would without the sensitive palm.
It's going to be interesting for sure how hard this will be. I've bent some easy 80D that were pretty much 8 3/8x3/8", however those 80D's where most likely of softer metal than what the gold will be, which I'm sure will be a MONSTER

No pressure David, but I have the upmost faith that you will defeat this bar sooner than most. Rest up bro.

[Daniel Reinard]

Rest and stretch fellas. This is gonna be interesting!!!

[Randall Strossen]

Randall, do you think it will get to me over in Sweden by next week?
If so I'm going to stop all training now and rest until it gets here. I've been training like a madman for this:D, although the training has been a bit extensive and I've suffered some light deep tissue pain in my right palm. Fortunately it's nothing that hinders my strength performance. So my chances of doing some damage on the gold are just as big or small as they would without the sensitive palm.
It's going to be interesting for sure how hard this will be. I've bent some easy 80D that were pretty much 8 3/8x3/8", however those 80D's where most likely of softer metal than what the gold will be, which I'm sure will be a MONSTER


David -

A lot of the timing to Sweden will come down to how it does when it hits Customs - will they let it sail through ("Hmmnn - ever see one of these? Did Eleiko shrink?") or decide that it requires further inspection (This could net us a molecular analysis with the compliments of the Swedish government). :;dk)

My best guess is that it should reach you about a week from today, but to be safe if you are scheduling your training around its arrival, let's assume the following Wednesday or so - at worst, this would give the deep tissue in your hand a little more time to recover.

Yes about the 80-penny nails - that was one of the reference points IronMind used for designing the Gold Nail.

I've got my fingers crossed for a speedy arrival and will be very interested to hear what you think!

[Mike Krahling]

What a monster, i got my Gold nail today and even though my doctor does not want me to bend, i had to give it a try. And all i had to show for it was a 1/2 degree wobble. Thats right 1/2 degree, lol

I hit it reverse style, and one day i will get it reverse, just not this year. Lets hope for 2012.

Great idea for the gold bar, i hope others like it as well. It will give another completely new level to shoot for. And the length really changes everything.

The good news is i did not damage it enough so i can still calibrate it to see what we are attacking and give us something to work up to.

[David Wigren]

What a monster, i got my Gold nail today and even though my doctor does not want me to bend, i had to give it a try. And all i had to show for it was a 1/2 degree wobble. Thats right 1/2 degree, lol

I hit it reverse style, and one day i will get it reverse, just not this year. Lets hope for 2012.

Great idea for the gold bar, i hope others like it as well. It will give another completely new level to shoot for. And the length really changes everything.

The good news is i did not damage it enough so i can still calibrate it to see what we are attacking and give us something to work up to.

A wobble on the gold reverse style is great Mike! Especially since I know that you are struggling with injuries right now.

[Mike Rinderle]

Yea Mike. Just moving that reverse is a big deal. Especially since you haven't been able to train at all.

[Adam Glass]

gave it a shot today

attempt 1-W/IM pads Double under, about 1 degree. Cussed a lot, didn't feel very nice
attempt 2-W/IM pads DO, can get the bar high under the chin, not bending DO in months reminded me of why I dislike it- crushed the fingers nicely.
attempt 3- reverse, maybe 2 more degrees of movement, now it wobbles when I roll it.

Will be a long while before I will be able to bend this bar. Very tough, very stout. By comparison it feels tougher than my FBBC KOAB stock (given the very small movements that opinion is not worth much)

if the goal is to create a bending version of the #4 the rules plus this stock do it.

looking forward to Paul Knights report
ATG

[Andy Thomas]

gave it a shot today

attempt 1-W/IM pads Double under, about 1 degree. Cussed a lot, didn't feel very nice
attempt 2-W/IM pads DO, can get the bar high under the chin, not bending DO in months reminded me of why I dislike it- crushed the fingers nicely.
attempt 3- reverse, maybe 2 more degrees of movement, now it wobbles when I roll it.

Will be a long while before I will be able to bend this bar. Very tough, very stout. By comparison it feels tougher than my FBBC KOAB stock (given the very small movements that opinion is not worth much)

if the goal is to create a bending version of the #4 the rules plus this stock do it.

looking forward to Paul Knights report
ATG

Valiant attempts Adam!:;st) It looks like this bar may be a bigger beast than anyone thought!! It's awesome that they are actually reaching benders and guys are having a go!

[AaronCorcorran]

Got the Gold nail yesterday in the mail. I think it is about 2 3/8" longer than I would be able to get even close to in position right now to kink. I would need to lose about 50# to even be close to getting that into position. My biceps are too big right now to get my elbows in front of the bar with anything longer than about 6".

- Aaron

[Mike Rinderle]

Aaron, if your not going to try it, shoot it over to me and I'll give it a run. :;ho) I think the extra length will kill me too, but you never know.

[Steve Weiner]

Randy,

I do appreciate you sending me a Gold Nail to test out. I gave it my all in various positions, and was not able to do a thing to it. I have to admit that I am out of practice when it comes to my top end bending (although my endurance is the best it has ever been) as these maximum efforts tend to bother my shoulders too much these days, but no excuses here, it is one tough piece of steel. Hats off to anyone that can bend it under certified conditions.

Steve

[Casey Emery]

The gold nail is a freak of a bar, it looks bigger in person than it does on the picture. No way in hell am I gonna do any damage to that thing anytime soon. I will keep it in my truck as a tire knocker. :;dk)

[Patrick Povilaitis]

Randy,

I received my gold Nail on Monday. I gave it a half-hearted attempt on Monday and didn’t do anything to it (was tanked from a deadlift workout earlier in the day).

I went after it again last night and was able to fully bend it. I started with my old “reverse style” and got a slight kink. I switched over to the “double overhand style” and got it moving. It took me a number of attempts over about a 20 minute period. It was much tougher than I expected, though I am a good ways off from my peak in short bending. It’s difficult for me to correlate to steel that I bent that may have been harder when I was stronger, and before some key injuries.

My observations:

The 8-3/8” length is something I do not like, actually my shoulders do not like it at all. I had to contort myself to get into position on this nail, not fun and probably not too safe. I’ve had some nagging injuries to my shoulders over the past several years, and this bend seems to have really aggravated them. The 7” length of the Red Nail is about as wide as I like to go, I actually prefer around 6”. I really do not want to play around with this length at all.

The steel is good quality, very tough throughout the bend. No tendency to buckle once it got moving. Literally a dogfight to complete the bend. Again, difficult to say if I tried this three years ago if it would have gone down much easier. I would say this is consistent with a good mid to upper range 80d nail. There are some much easier 80d’s out there, this will not fall into that category.

I do not like the jagged ends. You should consider chamfering these or allowing the ends to be ground before a cert attempt. I don’t believe this will compromise the bend at all. The jagged ends were a nuisance with the Red Nail. With the Gold Nail someone could actually get very hurt. You will have a bunch of guys attempting to bend this using the slippery IM pads in a disadvantageous wide position. For many this will be way above their current level, and should a pad slip off under full pressure the nail could actually hit the chin and neck area. We all know the jugular is there, I’d hate to see anyone get hurt or expose Ironmind to any product liability issues.

I used leather pads to complete this bend. To start they were smaller and thinner than a full Ironmind pad rolled up. After I got the nail to 45 degrees or so I added another layer of leather to alleviate the pain from the jagged ends.

Could I cert within the current rules? In a word no. I am not willing to put my shoulders at risk to train enough to be able to do the cert. The pads are not the main limiting factor, the time limit is. I would have to train at this length for a significant time to be able to polish this off within a minute. As I mentioned it was multiple efforts over about a 20 minute period. Several of these involved near blackouts, complete with the little silver things floating in the air. The nail/bar is no joke. I’ve got too much going on to risk the damage I believe I will sustain to pursue this.

Maybe I’m getting old and soft :)

I think the best style for this nail might be the underhand or “spike bend” style. Dave Ostlund is a great practitioner of this style and as we know is very strong. I also know Chris Rider is very strong with wide bars in the double overhand style. I think those guys might have the best shot, wingspan is an advantage.

I feel like I was run over by a truck today. Thanks :)

[Mike Rinderle]

Great job killing it Pat. Very impressive! The extra length worries me too. Will put a lot of strain on the shoulders and elbows. I too have moved toward 6" and shorter steel for most of my DO bends to alleviate some of the risk of injury, and because as I get into my mid 40's and my shoulders get less flexible, they just hurt less at the shorter lengths.

Good point on the jagged ends. I didn't even consider how much those would come into play on this huge bar that is already way out of position for most DO benders.

Interesting that it didn't get a lot easier after you got it to 40 degrees. Usually the longer length bars are easier to sweep and crush. That is solid steel.

Again, GREAT JOB! :;st) I figured if anyone was going to get this at all, it would have been you, Paul Knight, David Wigren, or Carl Ansara.

[Patrick Povilaitis]

Thanks Mike!

I really am careful with my shoulders and elbows these days. It's nasty. I was VERY surprised that it didn't cave in past 90 degrees. I don't know if it was because of the slow efforts or whether it is just really nasty steel.

Anyone who bends this under current cert rules is an animal.


Great job killing it Pat. Very impressive! The extra length worries me too. Will put a lot of strain on the shoulders and elbows. I too have moved toward 6" and shorter steel for most of my DO bends to alleviate some of the risk of injury, and because as I get into my mid 40's and my shoulders get less flexible, they just hurt less at the shorter lengths.

Good point on the jagged ends. I didn't even consider how much those would come into play on this huge bar that is already way out of position for most DO benders.

Interesting that it didn't get a lot easier after you got it to 40 degrees. Usually the longer length bars are easier to sweep and crush. That is solid steel.

Again, GREAT JOB! :;st) I figured if anyone was going to get this at all, it would have been you, Paul Knight, David Wigren, or Carl Ansara.

[Andy Thomas]

Great job Pat!! That sounded like an amazing battle! I was hoping that the extra length would make the bar easier to sweep and crush...it sounds like a true beast if it fought you every step of the way.

Congrats again on an awesome bend!

[Paul Knight]

well I bent one, but it didn't happen in the Ironmind pads ... I had to double wrap it and it took a little over a minute thirty .... this will take some serious training. Def like a #4 in comparison to a red. It's a hard bar all the way through like Pat said. It doesn't get easier after you kink it. I like it. When can I buy some? This will be a great goal to work for.

Link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tix1idSIls0

[Paul Knight]

Bent Gold picture

243

[Mike Rinderle]

Awesome job Paul!!!! A minute in IMPs will be a tall order, but if anyone can do it, you can bro.
:;nw):;nw):;st)

[David Wigren]

Wow. Great job from the both of you Paul and Pat!

However Paul has clearly switched his to a yellow nail:p at least that is what I'm forced to believe if I'm gonna keep my ego intact, haha. ;)

I have yet to try the Gold myself. But I'm not hoping for much anymore. I might be able to kink/start it. Because that was always my strongest part of the bend. But if Paul and Pat had to struggle on the sweep and crushdown. I don't think I'm gonna be able to to much of anything to it beyond kinking it.

[Chris Rice]

Great job to both Pat and Paul - that's a crazy piece of steel!

[Patrick Povilaitis]

Sick bend Paul, you are on your game! You can have that length......:;st)

That is some nasty steel.

[Nick Rosendaul]

Great Bending Pat and Paul!!! You guys can have that bar!:) Maybe someday I will take the pain and bend a red in Im pads. Nick and pain just don't get along that well.;)

[Andy Thomas]

Insane bend Paul!! I have watched a lot of your bending vids, and almost every one looks effortless. It was clear that it took some work for you to bend this unreal bar, and I think that in itself serves notice at how difficult this bar will be to conquer. Especially for us mortals:;nw) Outstanding bend Paul, great video- thanks for sharing that.

I received my Gold Nail today- thank you Dr. Strossen! It is an honor for me to have been included in the test group. I have no delusions about being able to actually bend this beast, but I plan on wrapping it up in IMPs and testing my ability to get in position to bend and applying some force to it as well. Looks like I have a new iso bar...LOL! I was hoping the additional length of the Gold might make bending a 3/8" bar possible for me, but from what Pat and Paul said, it doesn't seem to get any easier once you get it moving like some 3/8" spikes do. Amazing piece of steel!!

[Randall Strossen]

Good deal that your Gold Nail finally arrived Andy - thanks much for your patience!

I think we're only shy a couple more guys from the test group and then everyone who's taken a crack at this, as well as anyone who just has some thoughts on it, can weigh in.

[Carl Donati Jr]

:;nw) I had no delusions about this bar before trying it. However, I've been working on getting longer pieces of steel in position for the last two weeks. Thought maybe if I could get the Gold into position, I'd at least have a shot at a wobble.

Nope! No movement at all with this. I was able to get in pretty good position (only out a little from normal chest placement). Tried to bend this according to the IM rules. This thing is a monster!

Great job Paul and Pat!

[Andy Thomas]

I tried my Gold last night as well, tried it in IMPs first, then doubles. I was hoping for a wobble...any glimmer of hope that I might one day bend with the big boys:;ho).....no chance. The Gold was just as straight after my efforts as it was before....unreal piece of steel. Huge congrats to Pat and Paul for killing this beast, and to anyone else that got even a wobble...this is big boy steel for sure!

[Andy Thomas]

Here are my thoughts on the Gold Nail, I emailed these earlier to Dr. Strossen, and he thought it would be a good idea to post them here. Here is the meat of the email I sent him:


Yesterday, as I pulled the Gold Nail out of the envelope I was pretty excited, what a BEAST of a bar! Visually it is very impressive and a bit intimidating, especially when compared side by side with a Red. Here are my thoughts:

Appearance- beautiful steel, gold ends look good, one of the ends on my bar had a sharp point that was sticking up perpendicular to the length of the bar- it had to be removed before wrapping the bar. I like the shape of the ends, the Reds are cut the same way, and it makes it very easy to identify if this stock is actually from IronMind as I have never seen any other stock cut quite like this.

Length- I am not opposed to the length whatsoever. There was a "lively" debate among the steelbenders members regarding the length. I understand the progression being followed now that you explained it, nails increasing in both length and diameter as they get larger. The extra 3/8" has also been hotly debated among the steelbenders membership, most felt the extra 3/8" was unnecessary- an increase to 8" would have sufficed. Personally, I feel that the extra 3/8" may make it a bit easier vs an 8" bar, shorter bars from the same stock are always harder, there are some that claim, even if it was harder, a shorter bar would allow them to apply more force to the bar. A compromise may be at 8".?

Diameter- the progression to 3/8" is a logical one. I don't think anyone has an issue there.

Stock- this is the toughest 3/8" CRS I have ever felt. I have never unbraced any 3/8" CRS, but I have wobbled some in doubles. I have also cut and filed plenty, and even trying to file off the burr I mentioned above let me know this steel was very tough, filing the burr off was a good bit harder than other 3/8" CRS I have filed. I was unable to move the Gold at all, even with doubles, nothing. I did give a 100% effort and while I had NO delusions about bending this bar, especially after hearing of Adam and Pat's efforts and seeing Paul's video, I was just hoping to wobble it a couple degrees. I was unable. I would be VERY interested in seeing this bar rated- most are predicting 500-550lbs, amazing at this length.

Wraps- While I did resort to doubles after a dry run in IMPs, I think the bar should be bent officially in IMPs of course.

Time limit- It took Paul approximately 90sec to finish it in doubles. I would venture to say that Paul is one of the top 3 DO benders in the world right now...maybe the best. To see him fight like he did really lets the rest of us know how difficult this bar truly is. I don't have a hard opinion on the time limit of the official bend. If it stays at one minute, I am fine with that, if the time limit was increased to 2min I think it will still be a challenge that most will never meet.

In closing, I think that if this bar is to be a COC #4 equivalent then it is a success for sure. However, since the rule change to a CCS close for the COC grippers, the #4 list has been dormant. It really just depends on how you want the future of the Gold Nail to play out, if it is meant to be basically unattainable, then everything is perfect as is. I think Paul will get there, but currently on the bending landscape, there are only a handful that could even be considered as having a real chance at the Gold in IMPs, no rubber bands, in 1min. That will be a short, short, list for sure. If you are looking for more of a COC #3.5 equivalent, then in my opinion, a slightly easier stock would be needed- 3/8" for sure but maybe something that would rate just a bit lower. Either keep it at 8 3/8" or drop the length to 8" 2min time limit might work.? I have no dog in the fight, whatever the Gold is, I will train to bend it, maybe I will make it, maybe I won't, but at least I will have a goal- that drives me in life, the pursuit, not the accomplishment.

Could I ask one question please? Was there a reason that the Gold was chosen to be 8 3/8" long versus just 8" long? Thanks again for the opportunity!

[Carl Donati Jr]

Great write-up Andy! I was wondering the same thing about the length - why the extra 3/8" as opposed to an 8" bar? (If in keeping with the 60d-70d-80d stock equivalent.) This thing is a real beast!

[Randall Strossen]

Could I ask one question please? Was there a reason that the Gold was chosen to be 8 3/8" long versus just 8" long? Thanks again for the opportunity!


I was wondering the same thing about the length - why the extra 3/8" as opposed to an 8" bar? (If in keeping with the 60d-70d-80d stock equivalent.)

Good question and some guys have probably been wondering whether this was based on Ph.D. mumbo jumbo or maybe gripper voodoo.

Gut level, when Casey suggested maybe 7" x 3/8", my feeling was that was too tough and something like 8" would be more reasonable. Just in case, though, IronMind also cut some 8-3/8" lengths for our internal testing, in case the 8" was too brutal.

Long story short, when we saw how hard it was to bend the 8-3/8" x 3/8" it seemed better to stick with that length than to roll back to the dimensions of an 80-penny nail (8" x 3/8") and, to be honest, we liked the way 8-3/8" x 3/8" rolled over the tongue (well, not literally).

That's the inside story.

[Andy Thomas]

Cool! Thanks for the info Dr. Strossen. I had always felt the additional length may help, but the stock is so brutal, only a select few will EVER bend this under official conditions, and what an accomplishment it will be! The rest of us will have to put some serious work in and see what our bodies are capable of! Should be an EPIC journey!

Is there an anticipated date of when these will be available for sale?

[Paul Knight]

Good question and some guys have probably been wondering whether this was based on Ph.D. mumbo jumbo or maybe gripper voodoo.

Gut level, when Casey suggested maybe 7" x 3/8", my feeling was that was too tough and something like 8" would be more reasonable. Just in case, though, IronMind also cut some 8-3/8" lengths for our internal testing, in case the 8" was too brutal.

Long story short, when we saw how hard it was to bend the 8-3/8" x 3/8" it seemed better to stick with that length than to roll back to the dimensions of an 80-penny nail (8" x 3/8") and, to be honest, we liked the way 8-3/8" x 3/8" rolled over the tongue (well, not literally).

That's the inside story.

I think you made the right choice on the length Randall because if the Gold Nail was cut any shorter, it would only be that much harder. I'm excited to get another one because I bet I can take one down in under a minute now (still doubles though) and then I can slowly start removing from the leather until all I have left is the *IMP's.

I think the Gold Nail should stay as it is and in addition to the Gold Nail, perhaps the next step (like Andy mentioned) should be a #3.5 equivalent.

Randall, can your steel supplier get 11/32nd stock? That would be half way inbetween the Red Nail and the Gold Nail as far as diameter and maybe the length could also be somewhere in between like 7.5" or 8". This is where the "Black Nail" finally comes into play to complete the cert trilogy like the gripper certifications. Whatcha think?


*Ironmind Pads

[Mike Rinderle]

I think you made the right choice on the length Randall because if the Gold Nail was cut any shorter, it would only be that much harder. I'm excited to get another one because I bet I can take one down in under a minute now (still doubles though) and then I can slowly start removing from the leather until all I have left is the *IMP's.

I think the Gold Nail should stay as it is and in addition to the Gold Nail, perhaps the next step (like Andy mentioned) should be a #3.5 equivalent.

Randall, can your steel supplier get 11/32nd stock? That would be half way inbetween the Red Nail and the Gold Nail as far as diameter and maybe the length could also be somewhere in between like 7.5" or 8". This is where the "Black Nail" finally comes into play to complete the cert trilogy like the gripper certifications. Whatcha think?


*Ironmind Pads

I like an 11/32 bar at 7.5". I would be all over that. The 8 3/8 is just too long for me. Not many would get the "3.5 equivalent under strict cert conditions either, but it would be attainable for some of the elite benders out there. The Gold will only be certed by a couple people, if any. Which is probably how it should be. :;tu)

[Andy Thomas]

I think you made the right choice on the length Randall because if the Gold Nail was cut any shorter, it would only be that much harder. I'm excited to get another one because I bet I can take one down in under a minute now (still doubles though) and then I can slowly start removing from the leather until all I have left is the *IMP's.

I think the Gold Nail should stay as it is and in addition to the Gold Nail, perhaps the next step (like Andy mentioned) should be a #3.5 equivalent.

Randall, can your steel supplier get 11/32nd stock? That would be half way inbetween the Red Nail and the Gold Nail as far as diameter and maybe the length could also be somewhere in between like 7.5" or 8". This is where the "Black Nail" finally comes into play to complete the cert trilogy like the gripper certifications. Whatcha think?


*Ironmind Pads


I love it!!!!

[Randall Strossen]

I think you made the right choice on the length Randall because if the Gold Nail was cut any shorter, it would only be that much harder. I'm excited to get another one because I bet I can take one down in under a minute now (still doubles though) and then I can slowly start removing from the leather until all I have left is the *IMP's.

I think the Gold Nail should stay as it is and in addition to the Gold Nail, perhaps the next step (like Andy mentioned) should be a #3.5 equivalent.

Randall, can your steel supplier get 11/32nd stock? That would be half way inbetween the Red Nail and the Gold Nail as far as diameter and maybe the length could also be somewhere in between like 7.5" or 8". This is where the "Black Nail" finally comes into play to complete the cert trilogy like the gripper certifications. Whatcha think?


*Ironmind Pads


Paul -

Hmmm . . . sounds like another good idea and for sure nobody's going to be able to accuse the benders of ducking a challenge!

[Mike Rinderle]

Paul -

Hmmm . . . sounds like another good idea and for sure nobody's going to be able to accuse the benders of ducking a challenge!

I have a lot of bending goals right now Randall. I would put them all on the back burner for an opportunity to bend the Black Nail (or whatever it ends up being called). I just don't have the flexibility anymore to bend the Gold. But I think I could do some serious damage to an 11/32 X 7.5" nail. It would take some serious training to get in in IMPs under a minute, but I think I would have a good shot. I'd smoke it in doubles. hehehehe

I'd at least like the opportunity to give it a go. :D:D

[Ben Edwards]

That 11/32"x7.5" bar would be really cool and you'd sell a ton of those Dr. Strossen. I have a friend who just started bending and is pretty lanky and flexible so he'd buy some of those as goal bars. I think he'll get to that level pretty quickly since yesterday was his first time bending with my supervision and he bent a Red Nail in Ironmind pads and cert-legal conditions with a few seconds to spare. Before my interaction with him he had spent a few months bending with thin leather pads. Says his first bend was a Yellow Nail (double underhand - he just learned double overhand yesterday with me) and then he quickly went to a Grade 5 and has bent a few Grade 8s also.

[Carl Donati Jr]

Good question and some guys have probably been wondering whether this was based on Ph.D. mumbo jumbo or maybe gripper voodoo.

Gut level, when Casey suggested maybe 7" x 3/8", my feeling was that was too tough and something like 8" would be more reasonable. Just in case, though, IronMind also cut some 8-3/8" lengths for our internal testing, in case the 8" was too brutal.

Long story short, when we saw how hard it was to bend the 8-3/8" x 3/8" it seemed better to stick with that length than to roll back to the dimensions of an 80-penny nail (8" x 3/8") and, to be honest, we liked the way 8-3/8" x 3/8" rolled over the tongue (well, not literally).

That's the inside story.

Dr. Strossen -

That makes a lot of sense. The Gold is a monster at 8" OR 8 3/8." For me, personally, I think I am able to get into better position and generate more explosiveness at the 8" length. (Even more so at the 7" length, regardless of diameter.)

[Carl Donati Jr]

I think the Gold Nail should stay as it is and in addition to the Gold Nail, perhaps the next step (like Andy mentioned) should be a #3.5 equivalent.

Randall, can your steel supplier get 11/32nd stock? That would be half way inbetween the Red Nail and the Gold Nail as far as diameter and maybe the length could also be somewhere in between like 7.5" or 8". This is where the "Black Nail" finally comes into play to complete the cert trilogy like the gripper certifications. Whatcha think?


*Ironmind Pads

That would be an awesome step! Still a huge accomplishment (and a thick bar), but within grasp (short- and long-term) for many.

[Andy Thomas]

11/32" CRS in 1min in IMP would still be a very short list IMO. I bent an 11/32 x 7" bar that I got from Aaron a while back, he said it calibrated at 550lbs. I bent it in doubles and it took me just over 5min to bend it. I wasn't rushing, but I wasn't intentionally going slow either. I know that Paul and a few others would get it right away, but it would still be a VERY tall order IMO to bend an 11/32 x 7.5" bar in IMPs in 1min.

[David Wigren]

Well I finally went for my attempt tonight, and WOW what a humbling experience!
I battled for close to 2 hours with mine and managed a solid 2 degree wobble:D. I used IMP's chalk and rubber bands to keep the wraps in place. It wasn't a continuous 2 hour battle. There was alot of resting and re-wrapping the bar between each attempt.

It is without a doubt a MONSTER. And let me be the first to tell you, the Gold nail is tougher than it looks. Crazy as that might sound, it is absolutely true.
I'm not gonna blame on flexibility issues because I have very good healthy and flexibly shoulders which allows me to work pretty much in all angles. And I got some massive hits on that nail. I was able to incorporate every part of my hands, wrists, arms and upper body at a perfect angle on the nail with good technique. I could feel the sheer amount of force I was putting in the nail, an for me incredible amount of force. And still I was barely moving it, if at all. Very humbling indeed.
I can't imagine what kind of strength it would take to get that thing in under a minute. I'm not sure if I personally will ever be able to do it. It would take alot of work and pure dedication for even the strongest guys to get this one.

However that potential "black nail" sounds more obtainable. At least for us non cyborgs:D I'd be very happy to see that one as well.

[Andy Thomas]

David, IMO you are one of the best all around benders on the planet right now. I know there are a couple elite guys that may top you in one style or another, but as far as who does it all, at a high level, you are one of the best in the world. If you were humbled by the Gold then it is a SERIOUS piece of steel. I feel better about the beating I took.:;nw)

[Mike Rinderle]

Great attempt David! If it stopped you at that length, it is definitely one tough son-of-a-gun. Mike K calibrated his at 560lbs, which is just crazy hard at that length. Again, great battle buddy!

[Randall Strossen]

Well I finally went for my attempt tonight, and WOW what a humbling experience!
I battled for close to 2 hours with mine and managed a solid 2 degree wobble:D. I used IMP's chalk and rubber bands to keep the wraps in place. It wasn't a continuous 2 hour battle. There was alot of resting and re-wrapping the bar between each attempt.

It is without a doubt a MONSTER. And let me be the first to tell you, the Gold nail is tougher than it looks. Crazy as that might sound, it is absolutely true.
I'm not gonna blame on flexibility issues because I have very good healthy and flexibly shoulders which allows me to work pretty much in all angles. And I got some massive hits on that nail. I was able to incorporate every part of my hands, wrists, arms and upper body at a perfect angle on the nail with good technique. I could feel the sheer amount of force I was putting in the nail, an for me incredible amount of force. And still I was barely moving it, if at all. Very humbling indeed.
I can't imagine what kind of strength it would take to get that thing in under a minute. I'm not sure if I personally will ever be able to do it. It would take alot of work and pure dedication for even the strongest guys to get this one.

However that potential "black nail" sounds more obtainable. At least for us non cyborgs:D I'd be very happy to see that one as well.


David -

Hard to decide which was my favorite section of this, but I have to give the nod to "And I got some massive hits on that nail."

Thanks much for your feedback - your maximum effort deserved no less of an account of the battle. This was a great read - informative, honest and very helpful.

[David Wigren]

Thank you guys.
I'm not surprised that it landed at 560lbs at 8 3/8. I had to mark the bar, so that I would hit it in the same direction every time.
560lbs might not sound like much if you're not familiar with the "physics" of the calibration process. But to put it in context, if you were to cut it down to 7" it would probably land somewhere between 750-800lbs (actually the 1.15 formula says about 820. But I expect that the 1.15 formula starts to break down a bit when you're dealing with 7+" bars)
And when you realize that the common red nail usually calibrates at around 420-440lbs, you begin to realize that the gold is not that far away from the equivalent of two 8 3/8" reds taped together.

[Eric Milfeld]

For the past nine months I've been focusing on jiu jitsu to the exclusion of bending. Even grip training has been put on the back burner. But a new IronMind cert bar has inspired me to flip-flop my priorities. Very exciting news!

I like the idea of the bar being 8". It just seems like the natural progression from the 6" Blue and 7" Red. Or another way of looking at it: 60D, 70D, and now 80D. Granted, at 11/32" it will be slightly thinner than the average 8" spike, but with the type of cold rolled steel we are dealing with the difficulty level will be comparable. Of course another option is the use of 3/8" hot rolled steel.

[Mike Rinderle]

For the past nine months I've been focusing on jiu jitsu to the exclusion of bending. Even grip training has been put on the back burner. But a new IronMind cert bar has inspired me to flip-flop my priorities. Very exciting news!

I like the idea of the bar being 8". It just seems like the natural progression from the 6" Blue and 7" Red. Or another way of looking at it: 60D, 70D, and now 80D. Granted, at 11/32" it will be slightly thinner than the average 8" spike, but with the type of cold rolled steel we are dealing with the difficulty level will be comparable. Of course another option is the use of 3/8" hot rolled steel.

Welcome back to the land of the crazies buddy!!! :;ho):D

[David Wigren]

For the past nine months I've been focusing on jiu jitsu to the exclusion of bending. Even grip training has been put on the back burner. But a new IronMind cert bar has inspired me to flip-flop my priorities. Very exciting news!

I like the idea of the bar being 8". It just seems like the natural progression from the 6" Blue and 7" Red. Or another way of looking at it: 60D, 70D, and now 80D. Granted, at 11/32" it will be slightly thinner than the average 8" spike, but with the type of cold rolled steel we are dealing with the difficulty level will be comparable. Of course another option is the use of 3/8" hot rolled steel.

Great to see "the grip Dr." back in the game! I think you would have a good chance of bending the gold nail with some training.

[Paul Knight]

I knew Eric would come back to his roots ... it was only a matter of time

[Eric Milfeld]

Thank you, Mike.

David, I hate to disagree, but a bar that hits 560 at 8 3/8", performed in IM pads, no less, seems utterly unattainable for me. LOL.

[Mike Rinderle]

Thank you, Mike.

David, I hate to disagree, but a bar that hits 560 at 8 3/8", performed in IM pads, no less, seems utterly unattainable for me. LOL.

You and me both brother! :;lh)

[Chris Rice]

While just the idea of hitting the Gold nail makes my shoulders hurt - if a Black does come to pass - I may have to see about training to reverse it to 40 degrees - I have hit a couple fair to middling reverses lately.

[Mike Rinderle]

While just the idea of hitting the Gold nail makes my shoulders hurt - if a Black does come to pass - I may have to see about training to reverse it to 40 degrees - I have hit a couple fair to middling reverses lately.

Climber climbing back into the bending mix! I love it!!!! :;tu)

[David Wigren]

I'm still training my butt off for this one. I haven't been able to move the gold any further, but hopefully all that work will translate to the potential black nail.

[Chris Rice]

While just the idea of hitting the Gold nail makes my shoulders hurt - if a Black does come to pass - I may have to see about training to reverse it to 40 degrees - I have hit a couple fair to middling reverses lately.

11/32" x 8 3/8" reverse CRR from Goodman steel - it's bent just enough to say it's not straight - but no more than that. Oh - my bicep hurts too. But it did move :;hy)

[Mike Rinderle]

That's what %m talkin' bout! Nice job Chris!