Agendas? I don't have to show you no agendas!

[Kim Wood]

I was originally going to call this thread "Death in Life on the
Iron Mind Forum"... yes, I'm trying to face "head on"(as opposed
to just walking away in disgust)
what a couple of intelligent men and their stooges appear
to have accomplished(certainly not a positive accomplishment)
on this forum. I really believe that Randy Strossen has been
sincere in wanting this forum to become a "free market-place
of ideas"...ideas on all of the topics in the world of strength
training...a world that he covers in an very admirable fashion
with his "Milo" magazine. Yes, Randy is a friend...but he
is also someone I admire and respect. His "Iron-Mind' business
is "important" as a strength training entity... he GIVES to
people...he sincerely HELPS people...he wants people to get
the best out of strength training...he CARES(few people
in the industry do care about people who train with weights...
most just want money). And Randy is FAIR. I don't always agree
with him but I respect him greatly. Now this forum should
be much more than it is...it has far greater
potential than what is happening here NOW...like, TODAY.
Carl and David certainly are talented men...but their behavior
here is perplexing... obviously they want recognition for "their
sport" and themselves...obviously they have "needs" to
be here and to post inane stuff...they do have other forums
they can go to... In a thread started by Chris Rice(a very nice
fellow who seems to get along with all "camps" and many different
kinds of people)...continued

[Kim Wood]

...I wanted to have a dialogue with Chris and others concerning
certain things to be learned about getting stronger...now
I hesitate to post anything there...any narrative is ruined
... the dialogue Chris and I started is gone...and silliness rules...
Carl and David, please look at what you are doing...yes, you
are strong, smart guys...but you are wrecking this forum.
You seem to have some strange agenda...or delight in all this
happening. Both of you have attitudes that stink...but something
seems to drive you to this(and I sure don't want to know what that is nor does anyone else)...OK, you are going to put "people
in their place" ... you're gonna show 'em up and show 'em how smart and strong you are...big deal. Everyone
can live without this forum. And key players here are having
internal discussions with themselves as to why continue here
with you clowns obviously bent on wrecking the forum.
You two guys embarrass me. Please go away.
Oh, and I know you'll be coming after me big time now...
I don't care, fellas. You imposing your stuff here helps
no one... go to your forums(we thought it was interesting
that my name was mentioned in your Beast of the East
you-tube vids)...go be with people who respect you.
We are the Jews...you are the Arabs(metaphorically speaking).
I ain't happening. And it ain't gonna happen.
This is an ugly dance, guys... it would be best that you go
where you are respected and even loved... you are swimming
up-stream here...
One should go for the "light" ...this "heat"(and the spectators
that flock to see inter-net dust-ups) is a lousy show.

[Andy Thomas]

I would like to say that I agree that things have gone too far. Things have gotten too personal overall. I am not speaking for Carl or David, just my thoughts. Both sides have dug in and at this point nothing is to be gained. Insults have been hurled form both sides, each side believes they are right....there will be no winner. It bothered me a bit to see Chris Rice so frustrated, he has always presented himself as a class act.

I like Dr. Strossen, he has always been kind to me. I am laying down the sword, I am done. I hope that both sides can agree to disagree. No one will win in the current state, if both sides can stand down, I think things will be better for all forums and grip/ bending in general.

[Mike Corlett]

To mike corlett, I do apologize for dropping the f- bomb on you a month ago.

Carl, apology accepted.

Mike

[Robert artmont]

Carl-

Why leave? You were only defending you, and people like you...after being put down or dissed. And because he told you to go? Please! You and a few others have got into it with the "no it all" in the last couple of months... I agree that the personal stuff should be done with- even if you didn't start it... But all this... You are ruining the forum, and all this great training info? Well... Haven't seen any of that yet! Only stories about how great so and so was, and that I knew him! It's time to put up or shut up! What's known that I can't read on my own? That won't judge me or tell me to go away when I'm asking... Why are you so cocky? All and all I'd say stay if you can... And ignore the cheap shots!

[Steve Gardener]

Not every post has to be done from a soap box, full of vile. I love (not really) how someone who says they want more from a forum and makes suggestions on how great it could be then lowers themselves to the point of calling members 'clowns'. I've said it before and I'll say it now...

There are members here whose wealth of knowledge, talent and story telling skill could be second to none. But every time someone else metaphorically sticks up their hands and offers a difference of opinion they take this as a personal slur, quote Arthur Jones (something about saying nothing if you have nothing to say etc) and (as we Brits say) throw their rattle out of the pram.

Often it's not the info that's weak but how it's put out. Forums are, by definition, where debate (a two way thing remember) takes place. It has been said many times that to make such discussions flow one should talk as though one would if face to face with the person you agree or disagree with. However, we have, as one might guess, a lot of Alpha type personalities here. Ergo anyone that disagrees is insulted or demeaned in some way.

I have a tenant here who, when in his cups (drinking), has an annoying habit of talking TO or AT rather than talking WITH. I suspect that we see a lot of that here.

[Randall Strossen]

Guys have probably noticed that I haven't taken the Chicken Little (The Sky is Falling) approach when we've hit bumps in the road - my feeling is that a little turbulence is part of the flight and not something that should inspire panic.

Ideally, we'll always have a lot of room for dissenting opinions and my idea from the beginning was that rather than managing via heavy handed moderators in black masks, the IronMind Forum would be largely self-policing in that majority of members would be knowledgeable reasonable people (right?!), so if someone said something false, rude or otherwise inappropriate, a nudge (or a cold shoulder) from the community would deliver the message.

Anyway, here it comes: Give yourselves a hand on this - you guys are doing great moving in this direction, I'm proud of you for that, and happy to have you here.

[Robert artmont]

Carl-

Why leave? You were only defending you, and people like you...after being put down or dissed. And because he told you to go? Please! You and a few others have got into it with the "no it all" in the last couple of months... I agree that the personal stuff should be done with- even if you didn't start it... But all this... You are ruining the forum, and all this great training info? Well... Haven't seen any of that yet! Only stories about how great so and so was, and that I knew him! It's time to put up or shut up! What's known that I can't read on my own? That won't judge me or tell me to go away when I'm asking... Why are you so cocky? All and all I'd say stay if you can... And ignore the cheap shots!

My apologies to the forum! Was at a campfire last night... And someone gave me a tall glass of Jim beam on the rocks! I still feel the same, just like to take back the "no it all" comment. We should be trying to help each other get stronger! And with the strongest guys around, on this forum, we should get that done.