Tweet
All
In the past few days a number of emails have been "flying" amongst those interested in traditional stone lifting. The subject of controversy is the web site run by a partcular German "gentleman" named Thorsten Moser. The attached link gives access to his stone lifting "Hall of Fame".
A number of days agao, this page on the website included a list of "Succesful Inver Stone Lifts". I was surprised to see it as quite simply it was one which was prepared by myself and Mr Moser decided in his wisdom to replicate it however its inclusion contained all the errors that I had personally made in its initial draft. Plagiarism is one thing, but the text accompanying (now withdrawn) asked everyone and anyone who has lifted the stones to simply contact him and he will add them to the list.
Also on the site (and still there) is a list of "succesful Dinnie lifts" obviously taken from the Gordon Dinnie website. Again there was a text asking those who had lifted these fabled stones to contact him and he would add them to the list. An addition by a lifter from Austria of a "lift" made just last month is included.
The impression given by the website was one that Mr Moser via his "hall of fame" was now the custodian of these stones and this could certainly be inferred from his text although he did have a link direct to the Dinnie website included.
Plagiarism aside (theft in the laymans terms), Mr Moser has never lifted either the Dinnies or the Inver Stone and when he visited Inver and was unsuccesful, did he put his attempt into the visitors book? No he didn't. He had the chance, because he photographed (parts of) it instead. He obviously deemed his attempt unworthy or perhaps there may have been a degree of vanity as it is obvious that there have been many others who have failed to record their attempt as well, but the visitors book is there to record VISITS AND ATTEMPTS not SUCCESFUL LIFTS. Strangely this is a point that Mr Moser failed to include in his website.
With regards to the Dinnies....It is the IHGF via the Donald Dinnie website who maintain the list of "succesful Dinnie lifts" and there is good reason for this. Scotland abounds with stories of those that have the "second sight", the ability to see things that others can't see and it is great to see that it is still being practiced as there are quite a few, on various websites, youtube etc who purport that they have lifted the Dinnie Steens...and then wax lyrilcal with how strong they are. I'm no expert but I have to look extremely hard, put my glasses on and look again and then imagine that I have seen a lift of the fabled stones. A friend in tow will usually acclaim a good lift (in honesty are they going to say No) and for this reason, there is a degree of control and it is done by the IHGF proclaiming a succesful lift. Not your best pal, the guy passing by or indeed Mr Mosers website.
The inclusion of this "Hall of Fame" will simply open the doors to the wanabees and those who want to profess their strength without due consideration to an established process. There is only one list. Again, with Mr Moser, it was simply "contact me, with a photo if you can" and bingo your name appeared alongside those of true strength and dedication.
Mr Moser is also a "gripper" and there are many exceptional stone lifters who indeed do both. A grip hall of fame is understandable because of the process involved...you either close them or you don't but in stone lifting, judging a succesful lift isn't that simple so there can be no comparison in applying what is acceptable in the grip world.....halls of fame for stone lifting?
Adding a "Hall of Fame" to any website for stone lifting requires...firstly a respect for the history and a deep rooted knowledge of the art. Secondly, proof of personal success in the art of stone lifting, thirdly a comprehensive and detailed explanation of what merits a succesful lift and finally a rigorous process that can scrutinise a process. Asking whether you have simply lifted them as in this website is not going to achieve this. I would also add that neither would I think that Mr Moser matches the criteria for points one to three, others may dissagree.
Am I annoyed at Mr Mosers attempts at plagiarism ....no....thieves get caught eventually. Am I annoyed about this Teutonic Take Over of Scottish Stones....ask my wife.
For those that live in Sweden. Mr Moser in his website states that he is going to tell all about Swedish stone lifting in his forthcoming "publication" as shown in his website. One visit, instant expert....oh yes I am so looking forward to this.
For discussion....these points in my thread stress a "morality" in strength however I am sure that "imorality" may be the correct word to use.
Peter
PS...The website proclaims "under construction" no it isn't. It is "under destruction"
In the past few days a number of emails have been "flying" amongst those interested in traditional stone lifting. The subject of controversy is the web site run by a partcular German "gentleman" named Thorsten Moser. The attached link gives access to his stone lifting "Hall of Fame".
A number of days agao, this page on the website included a list of "Succesful Inver Stone Lifts". I was surprised to see it as quite simply it was one which was prepared by myself and Mr Moser decided in his wisdom to replicate it however its inclusion contained all the errors that I had personally made in its initial draft. Plagiarism is one thing, but the text accompanying (now withdrawn) asked everyone and anyone who has lifted the stones to simply contact him and he will add them to the list.
Also on the site (and still there) is a list of "succesful Dinnie lifts" obviously taken from the Gordon Dinnie website. Again there was a text asking those who had lifted these fabled stones to contact him and he would add them to the list. An addition by a lifter from Austria of a "lift" made just last month is included.
The impression given by the website was one that Mr Moser via his "hall of fame" was now the custodian of these stones and this could certainly be inferred from his text although he did have a link direct to the Dinnie website included.
Plagiarism aside (theft in the laymans terms), Mr Moser has never lifted either the Dinnies or the Inver Stone and when he visited Inver and was unsuccesful, did he put his attempt into the visitors book? No he didn't. He had the chance, because he photographed (parts of) it instead. He obviously deemed his attempt unworthy or perhaps there may have been a degree of vanity as it is obvious that there have been many others who have failed to record their attempt as well, but the visitors book is there to record VISITS AND ATTEMPTS not SUCCESFUL LIFTS. Strangely this is a point that Mr Moser failed to include in his website.
With regards to the Dinnies....It is the IHGF via the Donald Dinnie website who maintain the list of "succesful Dinnie lifts" and there is good reason for this. Scotland abounds with stories of those that have the "second sight", the ability to see things that others can't see and it is great to see that it is still being practiced as there are quite a few, on various websites, youtube etc who purport that they have lifted the Dinnie Steens...and then wax lyrilcal with how strong they are. I'm no expert but I have to look extremely hard, put my glasses on and look again and then imagine that I have seen a lift of the fabled stones. A friend in tow will usually acclaim a good lift (in honesty are they going to say No) and for this reason, there is a degree of control and it is done by the IHGF proclaiming a succesful lift. Not your best pal, the guy passing by or indeed Mr Mosers website.
The inclusion of this "Hall of Fame" will simply open the doors to the wanabees and those who want to profess their strength without due consideration to an established process. There is only one list. Again, with Mr Moser, it was simply "contact me, with a photo if you can" and bingo your name appeared alongside those of true strength and dedication.
Mr Moser is also a "gripper" and there are many exceptional stone lifters who indeed do both. A grip hall of fame is understandable because of the process involved...you either close them or you don't but in stone lifting, judging a succesful lift isn't that simple so there can be no comparison in applying what is acceptable in the grip world.....halls of fame for stone lifting?
Adding a "Hall of Fame" to any website for stone lifting requires...firstly a respect for the history and a deep rooted knowledge of the art. Secondly, proof of personal success in the art of stone lifting, thirdly a comprehensive and detailed explanation of what merits a succesful lift and finally a rigorous process that can scrutinise a process. Asking whether you have simply lifted them as in this website is not going to achieve this. I would also add that neither would I think that Mr Moser matches the criteria for points one to three, others may dissagree.
Am I annoyed at Mr Mosers attempts at plagiarism ....no....thieves get caught eventually. Am I annoyed about this Teutonic Take Over of Scottish Stones....ask my wife.
For those that live in Sweden. Mr Moser in his website states that he is going to tell all about Swedish stone lifting in his forthcoming "publication" as shown in his website. One visit, instant expert....oh yes I am so looking forward to this.
For discussion....these points in my thread stress a "morality" in strength however I am sure that "imorality" may be the correct word to use.
Peter
PS...The website proclaims "under construction" no it isn't. It is "under destruction"
Comment