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  • Bill Lepage
    replied
    Randall Strossen

    any further development on this topic?

    Leave a comment:


  • Mike Sharkey
    replied
    Originally posted by Larson Graff View Post

    You are right Mike.

    If we were to try and make comparisons, the Red Nail would be commensurate with a COC #3, a Black Nail (Please Randall) with a #3.5, and a Gold Nail with a #4.

    The list for the # 3.5 is at 13, being 8 years into it.

    The list for the #4 with CCS rules is a big zero, as is the Gold Nail Roster.

    With Ironmind Pads only, it takes this challenge to a different level.
    Most would agree that it is similar to closing a gripper with a CCS as opposed to a deep set.

    I would venture a guess that there would be several who could certify on a Black Nail now, and a few more that could come out of "retirement" and certify soon after.

    That being said, this list would probably only have a few names on it, even after a decade.

    Best - Larson
    Yeah man! Exactly that. IMP's make this a real challenge for even strong benders.

    Leave a comment:


  • Larson Graff
    replied
    Originally posted by Mike Sharkey View Post
    I'd throw my hat in the ring for a Black Nail. The 11/32 x 7.5" is a cool idea. We are 5 years in and no one has even bent a Gold Nail in singles yet, even in training. Larson, I like something on par with and Edgin, but remember this will be in IMP's. An Edgin in IMP's has only been done by a couple people.
    You are right Mike.

    If we were to try and make comparisons, the Red Nail would be commensurate with a COC #3, a Black Nail (Please Randall) with a #3.5, and a Gold Nail with a #4.

    The list for the # 3.5 is at 13, being 8 years into it.

    The list for the #4 with CCS rules is a big zero, as is the Gold Nail Roster.

    With Ironmind Pads only, it takes this challenge to a different level.
    Most would agree that it is similar to closing a gripper with a CCS as opposed to a deep set.

    I would venture a guess that there would be several who could certify on a Black Nail now, and a few more that could come out of "retirement" and certify soon after.

    That being said, this list would probably only have a few names on it, even after a decade.

    Best - Larson

    Leave a comment:


  • Mike Sharkey
    replied
    I'd throw my hat in the ring for a Black Nail. The 11/32 x 7.5" is a cool idea. We are 5 years in and no one has even bent a Gold Nail in singles yet, even in training. Larson, I like something on par with and Edgin, but remember this will be in IMP's. An Edgin in IMP's has only been done by a couple people.

    Leave a comment:


  • Larson Graff
    replied
    I think that a Black Nail is a great idea, and I am glad that this topic has been brought up once again for consideration.

    The Gold Nail is quite a beast not only in its diameter but its length, making it quite impossible for many to honestly pursue.

    If this Black Nail were created, and its level of difficulty were somewhere in the realm of an Edgin Bolt, I believe it might bridge this large gap to the Gold Nail quite nicely.

    That being said, I have not and may never bend a Gold Nail in any way, shape, or form, so there may be a bigger gap from an Edgin Bolt to a Gold Nail than A Red Nail to an Edgin Bolt if that makes any sense.

    For those who are training for the Gold Nail and are making progress toward it, I salute you.

    Best - Larson

    Leave a comment:


  • Anton Torrella
    replied
    I've finally gotten to red nail bending level after years of training and would love the ability to continue training towards a black nail certification once I've joined the red nail roster - please make it so!

    Leave a comment:


  • David Wigren
    replied
    A nail inbetween the red and gold would definitely be enough to have me take up steel bending again. A red nail reverse and/or double underhand style would be kind of cool but I'd rather not see it happen. It would water down the significance of the current red nail rooster IMO. But I'd still go for the cert if Ironmind decides to make it a thing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ben Edwards
    replied
    Originally posted by Nathaniel Brous View Post

    Ben. I don't see the point in finishing a reverse bend down to 2", since it won't be done in Reverse style anyway.
    I never saw the point either, Nate. So I totally agree with you.

    Besides...I don't think it's even possible for a person to Reverse a Red to 40 degrees...and fail to finish a bar DO.
    This is absolutely possible! I know a Red Nail (and beyond) high DO bender who was reversing Reds to 40 degrees (and a bit past) in the 30-second time limit that I spoke of. And then failing to finish them off DO within 5 minutes of his reverse movement. Probably because the reverse just wiped him out. Edit: Another friend confirmed to me that IF he had to do the Red Nail reverse cert within a minute (theoretically going with the minute time limit again) that he has never completed the task. And his best high DO bend is a Grand.

    Why not just have the ref wait the minute out regardless...then pull the pads and measure?
    Sounds reasonable to me.

    Most often a reverse is going to be finished in that first 30 seconds...or not at all...but keeping it at a minute will give a small percentage a shot at finishing the bend.
    You are right, of course. I don't think I ever had a reverse bend attempt where I got any movement at all after 30 seconds. And believe me, there was a few months period where I tried a lot.

    Playing with the pads is silly, messy and not really related to the challenge of bending in the first place. I absolutely agree that the bar must be reversed to 40 degrees...Why not just make that the challenge?
    Agreed, again.

    I can only think of a handful of people that might be able to Cert Reverse in this manner at the moment...with no guarantees. I'm still pretty far away from this challenge myself...but would not stop until I manned up and Certed.
    I bet you would cert in a very short period of time!
    I added my responses in blue colored font within the quotes.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nathaniel Brous
    replied
    Originally posted by Ben Edwards View Post

    Randall, I think the reverse-only category is a cool idea. The trouble would be in the measuring of the bend during the time limit. If the time limit is going to remain a minute. The most accepted reverse bending "rules" are a bend to 40 degrees in 30 seconds or less. This is not what you (IronMind) have to stick to of course, since it'll be your cert. But getting an accurate measurement of a bend (to 40 degrees at least) and then sliding the wraps back on to finish it DO to 2" or less between the ends of the bar would be a challenge. But I guess that's the point of a cert, right? A challenge.

    Maybe the IM reverse rules could be something like "30 seconds to bend it to 40 degrees or more. Then 60 seconds would be allowed for measuring with a protractor. Then another 30 seconds will be allowed for the crushdown to 2" or less."

    If you don't have the minimum degree of bend requirement, you'll have guys certifying by barely kinking the Red reverse, then simply finishing it off from basically straight in high DO style.
    Ben. I don't see the point in finishing a reverse bend down to 2", since it won't be done in Reverse style anyway.

    Besides...I don't think it's even possible for a person to Reverse a Red to 40 degrees...and fail to finish a bar DO.

    Why not just have the ref wait the minute out regardless...then pull the pads and measure?

    Most often a reverse is going to be finished in that first 30 seconds...or not at all...but keeping it at a minute will give a small percentage a shot at finishing the bend.

    Playing with the pads is silly, messy and not really related to the challenge of bending in the first place. I absolutely agree that the bar must be reversed to 40 degrees...Why not just make that the challenge?

    I can only think of a handful of people that might be able to Cert Reverse in this manner at the moment...with no guarantees. I'm still pretty far away from this challenge myself...but would not stop until I manned up and Certed.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ben Edwards
    replied
    Originally posted by Randall Strossen View Post


    Meantime, though, another suggestion that's come up before is starting a reverse-only category for the Red Nail . . . I know that's a little off topic, but what do you (or anyone else who's interested) think about that, please?
    Randall, I think the reverse-only category is a cool idea. The trouble would be in the measuring of the bend during the time limit. If the time limit is going to remain a minute. The most accepted reverse bending "rules" are a bend to 40 degrees in 30 seconds or less. This is not what you (IronMind) have to stick to of course, since it'll be your cert. But getting an accurate measurement of a bend (to 40 degrees at least) and then sliding the wraps back on to finish it DO to 2" or less between the ends of the bar would be a challenge. But I guess that's the point of a cert, right? A challenge.

    Maybe the IM reverse rules could be something like "30 seconds to bend it to 40 degrees or more. Then 60 seconds would be allowed for measuring with a protractor. Then another 30 seconds will be allowed for the crushdown to 2" or less."

    If you don't have the minimum degree of bend requirement, you'll have guys certifying by barely kinking the Red reverse, then simply finishing it off from basically straight in high DO style.

    Leave a comment:


  • Randall Strossen
    replied
    Originally posted by Sean Cashman View Post

    Great news! Thank you for the consideration Randall. What are the options you are mulling over right now?
    Sean -

    Wish I could say, "Here it is, what do you think?" but we're not there yet . . . still actively pursuing some options though, but it's going to take a little more time before I can say anything definite one way or the other.

    Meantime, though, another suggestion that's come up before is starting a reverse-only category for the Red Nail . . . I know that's a little off topic, but what do you (or anyone else who's interested) think about that, please?

    Leave a comment:


  • Sean Cashman
    replied
    Originally posted by Randall Strossen View Post
    Gentlemen -

    Just wanted to thank you and say that I've been reading all your comments—appreciate your input and having been mulling over some options . . .
    Great news! Thank you for the consideration Randall. What are the options you are mulling over right now?

    Leave a comment:


  • Aaron Baumann
    replied
    A nail between the Red and Gold would be so cool! I would definitely buy a ton of new black nails and bending pads.

    Aaron

    Leave a comment:


  • Randall Strossen
    replied
    Gentlemen -

    Just wanted to thank you and say that I've been reading all your comments—appreciate your input and having been mulling over some options . . .

    Leave a comment:


  • Brian McShane
    replied
    I would really be interested in the black nail option also! I've just certed on the red but the gold is something that I wouldn't be going after due to its length. Would be very interested in something between red and gold, ideally around the 7 inch mark or close. :-)

    Leave a comment:


  • Tank Andrade
    replied
    I am back to bending as well and am in desperate need of this black nail. I am just to red level again and now must turn my sights elsewhwere from Ironmind for quite some time before i am in gold territory. Thanks Randall for the consideration

    Leave a comment:


  • Tom Scibelli
    replied
    I haven't bent seriously in a long time, but I would definitely love to give a run at a black nail!

    Leave a comment:


  • Ben Edwards
    replied
    This is a good idea. Not enough to bring me out of retirement, lol. But I would pay attention to the bending "scene" more if the Black Nail made its way on the scene. And I know IronMind would sell a bunch of them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Carl Donati Jr
    replied
    Originally posted by Randall Strossen View Post

    Well, now that you've asked me, how about if weopen this up to any more thoughts you or anyone else has on this, please?
    Randall - I would absolutely train for this. I think something like the Black Nail would bring a lot of benders out of retirement, and for many like myself, give us something "possible" to chase. Like Nate, I'd quickly scoop up the next 100!

    Leave a comment:


  • richardcottrell
    replied
    I am new to this world of bending, but I would think a black nail would be great... And as a matter of fact, in a long road trip with one bender i joked that someone else could come out with a product that would be the "Missing Nails" Iron-Mind had the bag of nails, then they added the Gold, but what if there were a nail just below the Red and one just over it (Black)? Either way, with the Gold seeming to be so out of reach, maybe the Black would provide a nice step above the Red even if your not on the Road to Gold

    Leave a comment:

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