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  • Originally posted by David Wigren View Post


    Haha, I can imagine so!

    Randall, I understand that in the true sense of fulfilling a "chain of custody" you would have to have the gripper locked in a safe with a seal mark during shipping, and have a "certified" person to open the safe and verify that the gripper had not been tampered with during transport. However, I think that might be a bit extreme and expensive for something relatively trivial as a gripper cert. For that I think it would've just been cheaper and less expensive for you to actually travel to anyone who wants to cert. But that feels pretty extreme aswell. Somehow it's better to meet halfway, especially considering this happened in 1998, while the Ironmind company wasn't what it is today, and the certs had not yet grown into what it is today. With all that taken into consideration, having two seperate people hand out their own grippers to Kinney and have Kinney close it in front of them is good enough. Because that way, the witnesses don't have to be experts, or strong enough to verify the gripper. All they have to do is to be able to verify that they themselves bought the #4, and that they themselves did not tamper with the gripper. And that's pretty much as good as it's going to get.
    Wait, WHAT?! Did I just defend Kinney's #4 cert against Randall? Have hell frozen over?

    Wiggy -

    Don't go soft on us now—the next thing I know, you'll say that Joe didn't fake bursting beer cans or crushing raw potatoes, but seriously, what's your guess: Did Richard Sorin ever really (and legitimately) close the so-called Phantom 4 or was this a story that came into being after a guy named Joe Kinney started shaking things up in the grip world?

    Comment


    • Randall-

      You sure do give me double vision when you put other threads in the GOPD. I'm like, didn't I just read this!?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Robert artmont View Post
        Randall-

        You sure do give me double vision when you put other threads in the GOPD. I'm like, didn't I just read this!?
        Robert -

        Sorry about that, but yes, I copied that post from another thread because it seemed to fit here—forum housekeeping is a tough job, but somebody has to do it.

        Does double vision mean that you see a single-stamped CoC gripper as a double-stamped CoC gripper?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Randall Strossen View Post

          Robert -

          Sorry about that, but yes, I copied that post from another thread because it seemed to fit here—forum housekeeping is a tough job, but somebody has to do it.

          Does double vision mean that you see a single-stamped CoC gripper as a double-stamped CoC gripper?
          Randall-

          Yeah...but I see two right hands too!

          Comment


          • A gentle reminder of my request for the names of the other #4 owners....

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Chris McCarthy View Post
              A gentle reminder of my request for the names of the other #4 owners....
              Chris,

              The guys you're requesting the names of are fully aware of what's been happening on this forum (and other forums). They're also aware of sorin's 'letters' campaign, his mentally deficient cohort, musselwhite, and Hanson's declared representation of musselwhite (and, by extension: sorin). These guys don't wander through life unaware, and they view this forum as a hostile environment. Private communications from a social website have been posted on this forum (GOPD post # 2558). Private communications in the form of emails have been posted here too (GOPD post # 2559).

              It could be that they don't want to have their mail or other private communications used as fodder by the sorin / musselwhite / Hanson brain trust. Moreover, that wasn't just my mail that was being misused by sorin and musselwhite – it was also Dale Harder's mail. The same mail Mr. Harder thinks might have some historical value, was being copied and passed around by sorin (a coward and idiot) for the purpose of destroying someone's reputation. It was laughable to learn that sorin was still stupid enough to try to convince people those letters 'said' something they didn't at the AOBS event.

              Remember, Chris, musselwhite also put the letters to use in trying to extort my personal contact information out of Dr. Strossen by threatening to reveal their contents. Let's not forget the level of wrongdoing involved in these acts. Then, there's Hanson's inability to see that anything these guys did was immoral, dishonest, or unethical. It was Hanson who posted the social site and email communications referenced above - helping these fine folks.

              This kind of behavior usually results in the perpetrators never being trusted again - as it should. This group has proven they will do anything in their collective power to advance their agenda. It makes no difference how ill-fated the plan might be. These guys will implement that plan, and don't seem to have any concern whatsoever for the people they damage along the way. All of this makes for an unwelcoming, if not hostile, environment.

              I cannot speak (or write) for Dr. Strossen, but I think he's a rational and conscientious person. Because of this, I'd bet ten bucks (American) that he will refrain from publicizing the names you're requesting. You see, Chris, a conscientious person doesn't feed good people into a situation like the one these guys have created.

              Last edited by Joe Kinney; 12-13-2014, 10:00 PM.

              Comment


              • Joe, Thanks for the response. If these individuals were aware of the situation as you say it is a real shame they have not stepped up into the Witness Box and given their evidence.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Chris McCarthy View Post
                  Joe, Thanks for the response. If these individuals were aware of the situation as you say it is a real shame they have not stepped up into the Witness Box and given their evidence.

                  One of them was on gripboard many noons ago. I believe

                  Comment


                  • Saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaam.
                    http://goalorientedtraining.wordpress.com/

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Ben Edwards View Post
                      Saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaam.


                      Didn't you announce to the public that you'll never purchase another Ironmind product again?

                      Short memory.

                      Comment


                      • [QUOTE=Sam Scott;n56331]
                        Didn't you privately ask me to fake RGC ratings for you? And then get offended when people mock your lack of integrity? Even shorter memory than mine.

                        Randall and I mended fences. And I hadn't mentioned this next bit on here until now, but in the last year alone half a dozen of my coworkers have bought IronMind products as a direct result of my recommendation. /QUOTE]
                        http://goalorientedtraining.wordpress.com/

                        Comment


                        • Sam, I have had to eat crow over what I said. But there is nothing you can eat to regain your lost integrity.
                          http://goalorientedtraining.wordpress.com/

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Joe Kinney View Post
                            Chris,

                            The guys you're requesting the names of are fully aware of what's been happening on this forum (and other forums). They're also aware of sorin's 'letters' campaign, his mentally deficient cohort, musselwhite, and Hanson's declared representation of musselwhite (and, by extension: sorin). These guys don't wander through life unaware, and they view this forum as a hostile environment. Private communications from a social website have been posted on this forum (GOPD post # 2558). Private communications in the form of emails have been posted here too (GOPD post # 2559).

                            It could be that they don't want to have their mail or other private communications used as fodder by the sorin / musselwhite / Hanson brain trust. Moreover, that wasn't just my mail that was being misused by sorin and musselwhite – it was also Dale Harder's mail. The same mail Mr. Harder thinks might have some historical value, was being copied and passed around by sorin (a coward and idiot) for the purpose of destroying someone's reputation. It was laughable to learn that sorin was still stupid enough to try to convince people those letters 'said' something they didn't at the AOBS event.

                            Remember, Chris, musselwhite also put the letters to use in trying to extort my personal contact information out of Dr. Strossen by threatening to reveal their contents. Let's not forget the level of wrongdoing involved in these acts. Then, there's Hanson's inability to see that anything these guys did was immoral, dishonest, or unethical. It was Hanson who posted the social site and email communications referenced above - helping these fine folks.

                            This kind of behavior usually results in the perpetrators never being trusted again - as it should. This group has proven they will do anything in their collective power to advance their agenda. It makes no difference how ill-fated the plan might be. These guys will implement that plan, and don't seem to have any concern whatsoever for the people they damage along the way. All of this makes for an unwelcoming, if not hostile, environment.

                            I cannot speak (or write) for Dr. Strossen, but I think he's a rational and conscientious person. Because of this, I'd bet ten bucks (American) that he will refrain from publicizing the names you're requesting. You see, Chris, a conscientious person doesn't feed good people into a situation like the one these guys have created.
                            This post is truly laughable; almost as comical as that "titanic blunder" post! What was it I said previously? "Ah, the hyperbole, contradictions and ridiculousness continues... " I guess I should add hypocrisy to that statement.

                            These individuals view this as a "hostile environment"? Seriously? It looks like I am the one that might get a wrinkle now! There is no other (emphasis added) individual on the planet who should legitimately view this forum as a "hostile environment" as much as Joe Musselwhite should. But true to form, he was much criticized by the Kinney minions here for his decision not to join this "unwelcoming, if not hostile environment." By all means though, let us have protect these poor souls who must remain anonymous. keeping this ever so valuable testimony hidden to the world. It sound a bit hypocritical to me. I've got a better idea: "Wipe your nose" and bring forth the names.

                            Secondly, let's get this whole "mail possession" issue cleared up. The sole owner of postal letters is the addressed recipient of such mail. So, in this case, the letter in question was not "also Dale Harder's mail." It was and is exclusively, Dale Harder's mail. If an individual does not like Dale Harder, for example, exposing "his or her" mail, then that individual should simply not direct mail to Dale Harder.

                            Lastly, in the ultimate display of hypocrisy, we have this statement "This kind of behavior usually results in the perpetrators never being trusted again". Really? This is quite interesting considering that in posts #1916, #1919 and #1923 Joe Musselwhite's e-mail communications were posted on this forum. Of course, you probably meant that only "Kinney-disbelieving" perpetrators would never be trusted again; correct? Yeah, I understand perfectly. Retinol anyone?

                            Comment


                            • [QUOTE=Ben Edwards;n56332]
                              Originally posted by Sam Scott View Post
                              Didn't you privately ask me to fake RGC ratings for you? And then get offended when people mock your lack of integrity? Even shorter memory than mine.

                              Randall and I mended fences. And I hadn't mentioned this next bit on here until now, but in the last year alone half a dozen of my coworkers have bought IronMind products as a direct result of my recommendation. /QUOTE]


                              Done

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Ben Edwards View Post
                                Sam, I have had to eat crow over what I said. But there is nothing you can eat to regain your lost integrity.


                                I am in good standing with quite a few people. After all, it's not like I robbed and beat anyone.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Joe Kinney View Post
                                  Chris,

                                  The guys you're requesting the names of are fully aware of what's been happening on this forum (and other forums). They're also aware of sorin's 'letters' campaign, his mentally deficient cohort, musselwhite, and Hanson's declared representation of musselwhite (and, by extension: sorin). These guys don't wander through life unaware, and they view this forum as a hostile environment. Private communications from a social website have been posted on this forum (GOPD post # 2558). Private communications in the form of emails have been posted here too (GOPD post # 2559).

                                  It could be that they don't want to have their mail or other private communications used as fodder by the sorin / musselwhite / Hanson brain trust. Moreover, that wasn't just my mail that was being misused by sorin and musselwhite – it was also Dale Harder's mail. The same mail Mr. Harder thinks might have some historical value, was being copied and passed around by sorin (a coward and idiot) for the purpose of destroying someone's reputation. It was laughable to learn that sorin was still stupid enough to try to convince people those letters 'said' something they didn't at the AOBS event.

                                  Remember, Chris, musselwhite also put the letters to use in trying to extort my personal contact information out of Dr. Strossen by threatening to reveal their contents. Let's not forget the level of wrongdoing involved in these acts. Then, there's Hanson's inability to see that anything these guys did was immoral, dishonest, or unethical. It was Hanson who posted the social site and email communications referenced above - helping these fine folks.

                                  This kind of behavior usually results in the perpetrators never being trusted again - as it should. This group has proven they will do anything in their collective power to advance their agenda. It makes no difference how ill-fated the plan might be. These guys will implement that plan, and don't seem to have any concern whatsoever for the people they damage along the way. All of this makes for an unwelcoming, if not hostile, environment.

                                  I cannot speak (or write) for Dr. Strossen, but I think he's a rational and conscientious person. Because of this, I'd bet ten bucks (American) that he will refrain from publicizing the names you're requesting. You see, Chris, a conscientious person doesn't feed good people into a situation like the one these guys have created.


                                  Why don't we all set up a trust fund for Joe Kinney to attempt the CoC#3.5 cert: If he certifies, he get's the money.

                                  The only additional requirement is that the judge has to be well known in the 'grip' community, also, at minimum, the strength to comfortably close a #3 gripper.

                                  Gripper strength usually remains with people. So for someone who can smash and grind 4's; no set close 3's with ease using only two fingers, a 3.5 certification shouldn't be to much drama.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Sam Scott View Post


                                    One of them was on gripboard many noons ago. I believe
                                    Sam -

                                    Same one as who posted here or was it a different one, please?

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Sam Scott View Post



                                      I am in good standing with quite a few people. After all, it's not like I robbed and beat anyone.

                                      Sam -

                                      I thought you have torched and stomped grippers?

                                      Guys with GOPD might think that was worse than beating and robbing at least some people.

                                      I'd say that ff you did that to Captains of Crush grippers, that seems kind of sacrilegious.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Chris McCarthy View Post
                                        Joe, Thanks for the response. If these individuals were aware of the situation as you say it is a real shame they have not stepped up into the Witness Box and given their evidence.
                                        Chris,

                                        You make an interesting point. I'm sure you're aware of the atmosphere surrounding everything “Kinney”. People feel they have the right to interrogate me without relent regarding closing CoC #4 grippers. This is alright with me. I joined this forum knowing full well that I would be subjected to some inquiry. There have been some heated arguments along the way, but this too is acceptable to me.

                                        Recently, someone who ought to know better, but clearly does not, decided to inject the phrase “ever so valuable testimony” into the discussion. Your post carries … … “... the Witness Box ... and ... evidence”. Cordial invitations don't have “Witness Box”, “evidence”, and “testimony” printed on them. Plus, by reading this forum, people can also see that the questions would likely never end. Just how long would they be expected to testify? How much abuse should someone endure because they handed me their gripper? Have the people who handed Magnus Samuelson their grippers been identified and subjected to interrogation by the members of this forum? Why not?

                                        You and I have argued and gotten to this stage in the discussion before. On June 30th, 2014, (post # 2688) responding to you, I wrote:

                                        … … “... with different requirements of proof for different competitors. This, the dissimilar treatment of grip men by those who frequent this forum (and others by proxy), is something that needs to be addressed.” … … and … … “To use your verbiage; continually questioning my accomplishments and accusing me of fraud, without others being similarly scrutinized, seems “... a trifle unfair...”.” … …

                                        The fact that Dr. Strossen interviewed them and their 'testimony' sufficed for him is good enough – in the real world. There's no doubt he knows exactly what questions to ask. So, I won't be making any effort to contact these people, or to encourage them to participate here. I've been answering questions and responding to assertions (and accusations) on this forum for about six months – with no end in sight. While you and and I might not agree on what makes this situation a real shame, I think we can agree that the situation certainly could be better.

                                        Thanks for writing.

                                        Comment


                                        • Joe,

                                          Good points, good points indeed. I would like to think though that if I had seen someone do a thing, and I knew that that person was being questioned (heatedly) regarding that thing, I would have the integrity to stand up and say "Hey, I saw him do that thing". There would have to be a damned good reason for it to be otherwise. Now, the identity of these people may have been stated a long time ago on another board, but I think it would be helpful to have them all in one place, no.

                                          As for questioning Magnus's witnesses - well, one step at a time....

                                          Comment

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