GOPD: Gripper Obsession Personality Disorder

[David Wigren]

I think he's serious.

I'm serious bout grip training!

[David Wigren]

I noticed the other day that since I've started training grippers again, I'm suddenly stricken with the superstitious behavior of tracking the dog-leg! lol. Even though I know that it has close to no effect and the effort of locating the dog-leg before the set is probably draining more energy than what the supposedly harder or easier side would give me during a close. I close all grippers backwards anyway, according to the idea; with the dogleg in my fingers instead of keeping it in my palm. So if it actually works, I'm doing it the harder way lol. I think it comes from one of my old grippers from 2002. The quality wasn't quite what it is today, and the handles on my #1 and #2 was off set a bit with the dog-leg handle being set further out. I think this is why I used this side on my fingers since I could get a tad more leverage with the longer handle. And from there it just turned into a superstition that kept with me on over to the quality grippers with even handles, where the dog-leg actually didn't matter.
Anyhow, just wanted to share the stories of my mental breakdown as I turn from scientifically critical thinking to delve into the superstitious sea of dog-legs, seasoning and etc.

[Alan Matthews]

[ATTACH]n54207[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]n54208[/ATTACH]


Randy,

Here are a couple of pictures of my squatting set-up. You can see the handles and how I use them. There's a little concrete pad there too. That's the home-made bar loaded out to the ends with cheap heavy stuff.

Hi Joe, I'm curious about your squat program. Did you take any time off to recuperate in your squatting program, say every 6 or 8 weeks or so or did you continue squatting until you closed the 4 and beyond? Also, how deep did you squat? Thanks for your time, Alan.

[Ben Edwards]

Ben -

Thanks much—I think guys who thought traditional grippers felt a little squirrely in their left hand will be well pleased with Left-Turn grippers, and even guys who didn't think this will enjoy training with them.

I just did a grip trade and got four Left Turn grippers. Trainer, #1, #2, and #3. They are excellent! I really like the way the black handles look. All four have been rated. The #3 is right at the average (151 pounds), but is pretty wide. I have really only squeezed the Trainer, #1, and #2. The Trainer is about average (50 pounds). The #1 is on the easy side (72 pounds). And the #2 is also about average (102 pounds).

[Joe Kinney]

Hi Joe, I'm curious about your squat program. Did you take any time off to recuperate in your squatting program, say every 6 or 8 weeks or so or did you continue squatting until you closed the 4 and beyond? Also, how deep did you squat? Thanks for your time, Alan.

Alan,

Please accept my apologies for the delayed reply. The squatting was something that was done every day. Back then, I was training alone and there wasn't anyone around to tell me I needed to take time off for recuperation. Running on instinct (and coffee), I just did what felt natural to me. Squatting never seemed to carry any debilitating misery or fatigue over to the next day. Written another way: I seemed to be fully recuperated and ready for more squatting within 24 hours. There were a few times when I had some muscle soreness, but (again, probably from not having anyone around to advise me otherwise) my solution was to repeat the very same exercise to alleviate the soreness. Sometimes, "not knowing" can work out for you.

Consider this: Only on a rare occasion did my squat tonnage approach my grip workout tonnage. The small muscles involved in the grip training got a few days off between work-outs. The large muscles involved in the squatting didn't get any days off, because they never seemed to need any.

I continued with squatting for some time after closing the #4. The depth of these squats varied. The minimum weight (335 lbs.) soon becoming so boring it was more of a morning stretch than weightlifting. These were deep. Stuff like squatting big numbers on my birthday (pics elsewhere on this thread), were not so deep.

It should also be noted that all of my squatting was done in a very unofficial style. Home-made weights, home-made bar, me pulling on the handles for assistance. Some would say the exercise I did was not even 'squatting'. There are certainly many differences between the exercise I did and what most would consider proper squatting. This topic has been discussed at length somewhere on this forum. My objective was to subject the body to a severe workload, and this movement worked well for me.

Thanks for the questions, Alan, and best of luck in your training.

[Alan Matthews]

Alan,

Please accept my apologies for the delayed reply. The squatting was something that was done every day. Back then, I was training alone and there wasn't anyone around to tell me I needed to take time off for recuperation. Running on instinct (and coffee), I just did what felt natural to me. Squatting never seemed to carry any debilitating misery or fatigue over to the next day. Written another way: I seemed to be fully recuperated and ready for more squatting within 24 hours. There were a few times when I had some muscle soreness, but (again, probably from not having anyone around to advise me otherwise) my solution was to repeat the very same exercise to alleviate the soreness. Sometimes, "not knowing" can work out for you.

Consider this: Only on a rare occasion did my squat tonnage approach my grip workout tonnage. The small muscles involved in the grip training got a few days off between work-outs. The large muscles involved in the squatting didn't get any days off, because they never seemed to need any.

I continued with squatting for some time after closing the #4. The depth of these squats varied. The minimum weight (335 lbs.) soon becoming so boring it was more of a morning stretch than weightlifting. These were deep. Stuff like squatting big numbers on my birthday (pics elsewhere on this thread), were not so deep.

It should also be noted that all of my squatting was done in a very unofficial style. Home-made weights, home-made bar, me pulling on the handles for assistance. Some would say the exercise I did was not even 'squatting'. There are certainly many differences between the exercise I did and what most would consider proper squatting. This topic has been discussed at length somewhere on this forum. My objective was to subject the body to a severe workload, and this movement worked well for me.

Thanks for the questions, Alan, and best of luck in your training.

Hi Joe,
Thank you very much for the insight, it's much appreciated.
All the best.

[Joe Kinney]

Tom Scibelli wrote:

"I haven't seen the video Mr. Kinney made, but I heard that in it he's closes the number 4 and is closing it in a way that looks like a number 2, but all the people that have closed a number 4 on video have to really set the gripper to around parallel in order to make the close. So that might be something that raises doubt about the close."

Tom also recently asked: "Joe, what made you decide to join the IM forum after all this time?"

Tom,

One of the reasons I've joined is to address posts such as yours, above. After more than a decade of the 'doubters' engaging in their doubting and allegations of fraud, and their patent refusal to comprehend the simplest logic, I decided that some input might help.

I know you can 'do math', so here we go:

We start with a guy who can do holds for time with a homemade Monster Gripper. This gripper requires approximately 300 lbs more pressure to close than the CoC #4 does. Added to this, the gripper was closed approximately 3/8” tighter than what a CoC gripper allows. This fellow slams a CoC #4 on video and the close looks 'too easy' to people who aren't as strong as the man in the video.

Then comes Tom, with his seemingly honest suspicion that something might be amiss. His doubt is based upon a comparison of my #4 close to #4 closes performed by other men. There is a fatal flaw in the reasoning behind your 'logic', friend. When it comes to closing grippers, the simple fact is that stronger men will have stronger performances. This is not tennis. Only strength matters.

I suggest to you that there's a better way to get a feel for the legitimacy of my videotaped CoC #4 close. Try this: Find someone who can cheat a CoC#4 closed and hold it closed for, say, 5 seconds. Then, ask that man to close a CoC Guide for you. This example constitutes a pressure differential of approximately 300 lbs. Watch closely and see if this guy needs to “... really set the gripper to around parallel in order to make the close.” I say this guy will handle the Guide with the greatest of ease. No deep setting, no shaking and quaking, just a pure domination of the Guide gripper. If you're thinking that this experiment isn't worth the trouble because you already know what the outcome would be; then you've just defeated your own argument. This is really simple stuff.

There are at least two additional factors that come into play, however. One is that the closes I performed on the Monster Gripper terminated at approximately 3/8” tighter than a CoC gripper will allow. “Your guy” cheating a CoC #4 closed would probably not be doing so on a filed down gripper. This factor must be taken into consideration, and also works against your argument.

The other factor worthy of our consideration is the resistance presented by the knurling found on the CoC handles. The friction from this knurling, with approximately 365 lbs of pressure being applied by the spring, can be difficult to overcome regardless of how strong the grip man is. Even getting super strong by training on a Monster Gripper does nothing to alleviate the problem of overcoming the friction caused by this knurling. This factor works in favor of your argument, but not nearly enough to give you a win. Not by a long shot.

It appears to me that this second factor, overcoming the knurling under pressure, is something the 'deep set' crew has figured out. I've watched some videos of 'deep set' closes, and overcoming the knurling, by completely eliminating that part of the challenge, is one of the benefits these guys gain. Of course, I don't think it's proper to eliminate any part of the challenge. To do so damages the sport for others.

Think about these things, and then get back to me. Please accept my apologies for any rudeness conveyed by my writing.

Well, I didn't want to hijack Dr. Strossen's “Magnus Samuelsson, WSM 2004, CoC No. 4” thread, with this topic (one that has an argumentative tone to it), so it landed here. That's a great picture of Magnus killing a #4, by the way. Fine camera work there, Doc.

Anyway, I contacted Dr. Strossen recently to ask him about what he witnessed when he photographed Magnus closing that #4. Specifically, he was asked whether he witnessed any shaking or quaking during the close and hold. As I expected, Dr. Strossen reported no shaking or quaking whatsoever. Magnus didn't have to set the gripper to around parallel in order to make the close, either. This is what happens when the grip guy is strong. This is really simple stuff.

How about this guy? https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=119&v=j_zXe6oX5WA
Vano(?) pulls off a Silver Bullet hold with a CoC #4 gripper. Not too much shaking going on there.

Mr. Scibelli isn't the only person who thought the close captured on that video didn't look “right”, and certainly shouldn't be singled out. Indeed, there have been many similar comments from others, some of which carried accusatory language. If I knew how to do double-quotes / multiple-quotes, there would be more examples. Nevertheless, the answer today is the same as it's always been, “When it comes to closing grippers, the simple fact is that stronger men will have stronger performances. This is not tennis. Only strength matters.”

[Chuck Hench]

Tom Scibelli wrote:

"I haven't seen the video Mr. Kinney made, but I heard that in it he's closes the number 4 and is closing it in a way that looks like a number 2, but all the people that have closed a number 4 on video have to really set the gripper to around parallel in order to make the close. So that might be something that raises doubt about the close."





Well, I didn't want to hijack Dr. Strossen's “Magnus Samuelsson, WSM 2004, CoC No. 4” thread, with this topic (one that has an argumentative tone to it), so it landed here. That's a great picture of Magnus killing a #4, by the way. Fine camera work there, Doc.

Anyway, I contacted Dr. Strossen recently to ask him about what he witnessed when he photographed Magnus closing that #4. Specifically, he was asked whether he witnessed any shaking or quaking during the close and hold. As I expected, Dr. Strossen reported no shaking or quaking whatsoever. Magnus didn't have to set the gripper to around parallel in order to make the close, either. This is what happens when the grip guy is strong. This is really simple stuff.

How about this guy? https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=119&v=j_zXe6oX5WA
Vano(?) pulls off a Silver Bullet hold with a CoC #4 gripper. Not too much shaking going on there.

Mr. Scibelli isn't the only person who thought the close captured on that video didn't look “right”, and certainly shouldn't be singled out. Indeed, there have been many similar comments from others, some of which carried accusatory language. If I knew how to do double-quotes / multiple-quotes, there would be more examples. Nevertheless, the answer today is the same as it's always been, “When it comes to closing grippers, the simple fact is that stronger men will have stronger performances. This is not tennis. Only strength matters.”

Once again, well said Joe. The simple answer is to just get stronger. People always want to look for the easy way out and do the least amount possible in everyday life. This carries over to gripsport as well. I likebody builder Jerry Ward's saying on this matter "GIFD" aka "Get it F*****g done!"

As for the shaking I've always wondered if there was a way to improve that, perhaps increased wrist strength? I've seen guys give it their all, squeezing with every bit they had on a gripper but not shake. I start shaking at around 90% force exertion but my wrists arent very thick or strong really. I've wondered at times what causes it and how to reduce it.

[Ben Edwards]

Nevertheless, the answer today is the same as it's always been, “When it comes to closing grippers, the simple fact is that stronger men will have stronger performances. This is not tennis. Only strength matters.” [/FONT][/SIZE]

One of the best quotes of all time! "This is not tennis. Only strength matters."

[Joe Kinney]

... ... As for the shaking I've always wondered if there was a way to improve that, perhaps increased wrist strength? I've seen guys give it their all, squeezing with every bit they had on a gripper but not shake. I start shaking at around 90% force exertion but my wrists arent very thick or strong really. I've wondered at times what causes it and how to reduce it.

Chuck,

About the shaking – I've never had that problem, that I can remember, when putting out a lot force. However, I do think it's something that can be overcome. Look at Vano(?) in the video. He's really applying himself, yet he's breathing, turning his head, adjusting his footing … Isolating the the muscles involved in the task, while leaving the others (relatively) at ease, seems like something that can be learned / trained. There are probably some others on here who know far more than I about this situation, and how to overcome it. Let's hope somebody chimes in with the answers.

You shouldn't be concerned about whether your wrists are thick – just make 'em strong. For wrist strength, I recommend a wall mounted wrist roller. Forget about winding it up. Just use it to lift the weight a few inches, and repeat. Go heavy and use it to get strong. Heavy forward and reverse movements on this, combined with some simple levering, will work the muscles that control your wrists. I don't know if they'll get thicker. They will get stronger and, really, that's what matters. You can do this. It's easy to rig up and very productive.

[Chuck Hench]

Chuck,

About the shaking – I've never had that problem, that I can remember, when putting out a lot force. However, I do think it's something that can be overcome. Look at Vano(?) in the video. He's really applying himself, yet he's breathing, turning his head, adjusting his footing … Isolating the the muscles involved in the task, while leaving the others (relatively) at ease, seems like something that can be learned / trained. There are probably some others on here who know far more than I about this situation, and how to overcome it. Let's hope somebody chimes in with the answers.

You shouldn't be concerned about whether your wrists are thick – just make 'em strong. For wrist strength, I recommend a wall mounted wrist roller. Forget about winding it up. Just use it to lift the weight a few inches, and repeat. Go heavy and use it to get strong. Heavy forward and reverse movements on this, combined with some simple levering, will work the muscles that control your wrists. I don't know if they'll get thicker. They will get stronger and, really, that's what matters. You can do this. It's easy to rig up and very productive.

Thanks for the response Joe. Even if my shaking doesn't go away as long as I can hold the close well enough for the judge then that's all that matters. I will give the wrist roller a try. This is something I haven't used in some time. It has been an out of sight out of mind thing. I'll dig my homemade one up and implement it back into my training. Does the diameter of the roller make much of a difference?

[Robert artmont]

I've never had shakes with grip work...stretching hamstrings, yes.

I guess muscle fibers fire at different rates...and cause the shakes! Look at Juha...shakes a lot when closing a no.3 which is easy for him. Not really an issue I guess.

[Joe Kinney]

... ... Does the diameter of the roller make much of a difference?

It does to me. This is about working the muscles that control and move your hand around on the end of your forearm. This is not about about the muscles that close the hand. My advice is, "Don't try to turn a good wrist exercise into a half-@$$ed grip exercise. We have grippers and assorted other cool stuff for that work. Stick with a diameter that you can grip securely without even the slightest hint of 'thick handled' work entering your mind. Use some electrician's friction tape, or athletic tape to get a stickier surface. This isn't grip work, but it'll help your gripper performance.

The one I used was less than 2" in diameter, and if it was closer to 1" in diameter, that would have suited me just fine. Hope some of this helps you, Chuck.

[Ben Edwards]

Maybe we should talk about holding up our off hand in front of our face in case the spring breaks and propels a shard into our eye. I've heard it's a legit method to prevent gripper breakage-induced blindness (GBIB). Sorin provides a super entertaining read on the Gripboard about this issue. Last night I did a gripper workout (my wife said she was actually glad to hear the "click-click-click" of the Left Turn grippers, since it's been a while since I did any real gripper workouts), and thought that maybe I should be safe and wear a heavy oven mitt on my off hand and use it to shield my face from possible gripper shards. In the end, I opted not to wear the oven mitt. Surely since I don't even hold the title of "Grip Baron" - it wouldn't be necessary to shield my face or my thumb from artery bleedouts. Turns out I was right. I survived another gripper workout. Who would've thought that closing grippers could be so dangerous?!? I have an order placed on Ebay for a full suit of armor to protect myself properly by the next gripper workout.

[Chuck Hench]

Lol. Entertaining read there Ben, I enjoyed that haha. GBIB.

[WesOblander]

Maybe we should talk about holding up our off hand in front of our face in case the spring breaks and propels a shard into our eye. I've heard it's a legit method to prevent gripper breakage-induced blindness (GBIB). Sorin provides a super entertaining read on the Gripboard about this issue. Last night I did a gripper workout (my wife said she was actually glad to hear the "click-click-click" of the Left Turn grippers, since it's been a while since I did any real gripper workouts), and thought that maybe I should be safe and wear a heavy oven mitt on my off hand and use it to shield my face from possible gripper shards. In the end, I opted not to wear the oven mitt. Surely since I don't even hold the title of "Grip Baron" - it wouldn't be necessary to shield my face or my thumb from artery bleedouts. Turns out I was right. I survived another gripper workout. Who would've thought that closing grippers could be so dangerous?!? I have an order placed on Ebay for a full suit of armor to protect myself properly by the next gripper workout.

Golly gee, Ben, I would hate see you get hurt by a flying out-of-control gripper spring. I'm glad you survived another workout another using grippers,known items of mass destruction. And all without a crushed orbital bone, missing teeth or a misaligned jaw. Well, grip baron, this one's for you: http://www.hockeygiant.com/bau09c2fl...FUNhfgodIW8Mpg

[Sam Scott]

At least the 'Baron ' can produce pictures, witnesses, both past and present, displaying his grip strength. ( Even though CCS an old Tetting # 3 gripper with 2 fingers is a stretch).

We have a Savage gripster over at the forum claiming legendary grip feats without clear footage, or any testimony.

[Robert artmont]

At least the 'Baron ' can produce pictures, witnesses, both past and present, displaying his grip strength. ( Even though CCS an old Tetting # 3 gripper with 2 fingers is a stretch).

We have a Savage gripster over at the forum claiming legendary grip feats without clear footage, or any testimony.

I think the "Savage Gripster" you speak of is in his own little world....content to passively show what he can do. Doesn't mean he can't do what he claims...just doesn't jump through hoops to the "show me" crowd.

The rule of a claimed feat must be proven, so they say. he's probably okay with not going the extra mile to satisfy the folks who don't believe him. That does him no good, but that's the way he wants it I guess.

He also seems to have many different things pulling him in different directions. When he get his course straight I think he will be better off. I guess we all could benefit from that advice!

This no.4...seems to claim a lot of Grip Men. We had Loan getting very close, then never hearing anything from him. Vogt was really close, also...gone. And many others....

When I see Vano doing what he is doing, I get excited for him...but I know he's a long way off from ccs. It's this last mile that makes or breaks them. I wish them the best.

[Joe Kinney]

... ...

This no.4...seems to claim a lot of Grip Men. We had Loan getting very close, then never hearing anything from him. Vogt was really close, also...gone. And many others....

When I see Vano doing what he is doing, I get excited for him...but I know he's a long way off from ccs. It's this last mile that makes or breaks them. I wish them the best.

Well stated.

[Ben Edwards]