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Are the Hub lifting requirements not being followed?

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  • Are the Hub lifting requirements not being followed?

    "The IronMind Hub followed and after an extensive discussion and demonstration of what was and was not considered a legal starting position, competitors dived into this classic test of pinch grip strength: Angel Kylagina (Russia) won the women’s side with a lift of 25 kg, and Ivan Krivykh (Russia) won the men’s side with a lift of 35 kg, beating the Finns Jouni Mahonen (second) and Harri Tolonen (third) on body weight."

    Mentioning "extensive discussion and demonstration" sounds to me like the IronMind rules are maybe NOT being followed in some contests. Has this been the case lately? I'm trying to convince a friend with a spacious house and lifting area to host a Crushed-To-Dust event and want to make sure we REALLY know the rules beforehand. I am not new to grip contests, and feel like I know the rules. But that could be a commonly (perhaps falsely) held belief amongst competitors and promoters.

    The slight variations possible with thumb placement are obviously make or break for some competitors on whether 45lbs is going to stay glued to the floor or be a high pull.

    One really strange grip variation that I've never seen before the other day (had a coworker over to see some of my grip stuff) on the hub was hard to explain, but I'll do my best. Instead of using the finger tips, he made a fist and then opened the hand like a short claw. Thumb was still bent and the fingers were all bent - so the finger tips were touching the palm. He felt like he'd be able to exert a lot more force with shorter levers. It was a night and day difference for him. But it looked painful to me. I didn't try it. My 47lb "45lb" plate went nowhere when he tried it in the standard claw style grip. But it flew up when he used his strange style of short claw gripping it.

    I'm not arguing for his style to be "legalized," by the way. It almost took all the skin off four of his knuckles doing it that way.
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  • #2
    The lifting surface on the fingers was the knuckles. The middle of the first joint. So "reverse claw style" - compared to the finger tip claw style.
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    • #3
      Ben, no, that does not sound right. Lifting surface was the knuckles? Is that just something you only saw with your coworker? Or have you seen it done by others?

      I have to tell you, what I like about "The Finns", is those guys lift that sucker up all the way! I have noticed with more and more there being special height gadgets to indicate whether something is a good lift or not, miniature high jump bar-looking contraptions, items welded onto various gadgets, all these things, unrelated to the IM Hub, have caused the range of "the stroke" for the IM Hub for many people to become less and less. Seems to me it is the equivalent of a 15mm block on a gripper close and pronouncing yourself a Number 3 closer. I understand there is a movement to standardize, but if there is no such thing as "professional judgment" why even bother to have a judge? In my own log, around 1999-2004, I did not consider an attempt on the IM Hub a "good lift" unless the bottom of the loading pin was at least knee height. I would be the worst judge in the world for the IM Hub, as I would probably red light everyone except the Finns. Not because of the IM Hub rules, but because of the thousands of reps that I did before I ever heard of the Gripboard, ever met a grip guy, ever saw a video, ever saw anyone lift anything by a hub or by a plate's hub. The worst judge, absolutely. The above discussion is the opinion of Mike Corlett and does not represent the policy of IronMind, Randall Strossen, blah blah standard legal disclaimer language.

      I think that there are some who almost "doorknob" it Ben, that usually is what I have seen as a caution during the rules explanation portion of Haugen-run contests.

      But this "reverse claw" method? If that is something catching on, I think it ought to be specifically banned. I "think" the rules cover it now, but I will revisit them and talk to Randy.

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      • #4
        Thanks for the reply, Mike! I wasn't clear enough, but no - I have never seen someone else use the knuckles-as-the-lifting-surface style. That was not at a grip contest. Just messing around. I believe that was the first time he attempted a hub lift.
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        • #5
          I was there when they had these length discussions that you're talking about and I think they were only lengthy because of the language barrier lol Randall, the APL judging team, and the promoter all agreed that the Ironmind rules were to be followed explicitly in this lift, which of course is no surprise. Specifically, there was an issue of some competitors not using all five fingers to lift the hub (the pinky was kept off). So this judge wanted to ensure that the strictest form was used and insisted that not only were all five finger tips supposed to make contact with the flange, but that they must remain in contact during the lift (not in the IM rules) and that the fingers must be straight during the performance of the lift (also not in the IM rules). One competitor in the day, who was short and quite round, attempted to brace the hub on his belly and lift, which was called no good thankfully. Last year, this wasn't caught and it affected the podium finishes.

          As you know, getting your grip quite right on a heavy hub means you are contorting and hyperextending your knuckles into all kinds of unnatural positions. To have the judge stop you before you lift and physically move your fingers into a position that you were not allowed to change and be expected to lift the most weight was short of impossible. I think this judge has participate in a number of grip and armlifting comps before so he's not unfamiliar with the event, but because of the controversy caused by some others, at least he was being consistently strict to all competitors on this and overall the performances suffered. I can't find the picture now, but I took a pic of the screen showing the lifters attempts. In the first round, a couple people missed their openers. In the second round, almost everyone missed because the judging got tighter, and in the third round, nobody made their third attempt. I finished with 32.5kg I think and felt good for way more, but couldn't quite hold 35kg at lock out with the judge's desired grip.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Clay Edgin View Post
            I was there when they had these length discussions that you're talking about and I think they were only lengthy because of the language barrier lol Randall, the APL judging team, and the promoter all agreed that the Ironmind rules were to be followed explicitly in this lift, which of course is no surprise. Specifically, there was an issue of some competitors not using all five fingers to lift the hub (the pinky was kept off). So this judge wanted to ensure that the strictest form was used and insisted that not only were all five finger tips supposed to make contact with the flange, but that they must remain in contact during the lift (not in the IM rules) and that the fingers must be straight during the performance of the lift (also not in the IM rules). One competitor in the day, who was short and quite round, attempted to brace the hub on his belly and lift, which was called no good thankfully. Last year, this wasn't caught and it affected the podium finishes.

            As you know, getting your grip quite right on a heavy hub means you are contorting and hyperextending your knuckles into all kinds of unnatural positions. To have the judge stop you before you lift and physically move your fingers into a position that you were not allowed to change and be expected to lift the most weight was short of impossible. I think this judge has participate in a number of grip and armlifting comps before so he's not unfamiliar with the event, but because of the controversy caused by some others, at least he was being consistently strict to all competitors on this and overall the performances suffered. I can't find the picture now, but I took a pic of the screen showing the lifters attempts. In the first round, a couple people missed their openers. In the second round, almost everyone missed because the judging got tighter, and in the third round, nobody made their third attempt. I finished with 32.5kg I think and felt good for way more, but couldn't quite hold 35kg at lock out with the judge's desired grip.
            Hey, Clay! I appreciate the detailed reply. Sounds crazy. I do agree that at least it's a good thing when the judging is equally strict to all the competitors at least.
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