Diesel Crew's Youtube Hit Piece on Joe Kinney

[Mike Corlett]

This past weekend, I came across a Youtube video that was posted in early 2019. Here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGW2EsbLWN4

It is an 11 minute narrated piece with Jedd Johnson on camera the entire time. He is offering his opinion of Joe Kinney, as a way of answering the very common question that he gets asked; people are wondering what he thinks of Joe Kinney. Jedd Johnson is a respectable strong grip guy who is the person most responsible for popularizing grip contests in the US from 2004-2010. Since then, grip contests "have grown legs" so to speak, and they are all over the country. I competed in the 2009 "Nationals" that were held at his home, and I won the "Diesel Award", which was something done by secret ballot of the competitors as a way of honoring the most intense/inspirational/etc. Jedd is also a Moderator on the Gripboard. I have financially supported the Gripboard over the last 10 years, which only a small minority of Gripboard members actually do. And, I purchased the DVD sets of the first few contests he ran. I have met Jedd on three occasions: the 2009 Nationals, and two different AOBS Dinners, 10 years apart. "Diesel Crew" is what Jedd calls his grip and training business.

Okay, the subject is Joe Kinney. I was disappointed in the 11 minute video, because it truly was a Hit Piece. Very early on in the video, Jedd was shrugging his shoulders, actually unsure of himself, saying "I don't really know when he closed the gripper". That is a very easy piece to research, as the IronMind website, in the "Who's Who" of Captains of Crush, shows Joe's name as a Number 3 Certified Captain of Crush in 1997, and a Number 4 Certified Captain of Crush in 1998. The piece goes down after that. Worse, it refers the viewer to Gripboard.com to "research" if the viewer wants to learn more.

All threads on the Gripboard talking about Joe Kinney eventually get shut down. They get shut down because many posters get emotional. And, if someone perceives someone who does not share their own view of Joe Kinney's accomplishments as not being rattled, they then resort to making stuff up, insulting the party, ridiculing them, etc. Most criticism of Kinney is based on speculation, not facts. People change words, falsely accuse others of calling respected members liars, etc. If I were Jedd, I would have left the Gripboard out of it. But I am not Jedd.

The Gripboard was not always this way. Check out this thread from 17 years ago:

https://www.gripboard.com/index.php?...ey-is-a-fraud/

Seventeen years ago, all of the posters on the thread, except for two, believed Joe Kinney. There were two posters "on the fence". What happened since then?

When the original VHS tape was made in 1998, 2005 was a long ways off. What happened in 2005? Youtube was invented. In 2019, critics are saying "why didn't they do this, why didn't they do that in the video?" Because it was made by amateurs who never thought of those things, and had zero experience with filming.

I first became aware that there were Kinney skeptics in 2004. I never had visited a grip internet site, I had never met a "grip" person, until I entered a contest in 2004. A few months after I met a fellow young enough to be my son, he, a 2003 Captain of Crush, came back from the 2004 AOBS Dinner. There, a Strength Legend told him to view the Number 4 close that J Kinney does at the beginning of the Get A Grip video. He would see, the Legend said, a very fast close that was impossible to achieve. Less than two years later, I went to a birthday party for a Strength Enthusiast about 100 miles North of me. I politely listened and watched the tape showing what was described, not disclosing I had the tape and had watched it more than a few times. His source? Same fellow as my 20 something year old friend's source. He, like the younger fellow, was 100% certain it was fake.

Both of my friends, the old guy and the young guy, were told the same thing. Joe Kinney, mechanical genius that he was, had obviously heated the Number 4 gripper, rendering the spring weaker. It was a theory that went from the one-on-one conversations, to telephone calls, to emails, to the Internet, and to who knows where. Every single bit of it speculation and hearsay. Every. Single. Bit. Sure, there were some analytical fellows who know just how hard it is to dominate a Number 4 gripper and came to that conclusion on their own. But most of it is fanned by the flames of jealousy.

So here we are, 21 years after Joe Kinney Certified on the Number 4 gripper, and not only are there forum discussions of Joe Kinney, there are entire Youtube presentations questioning his Certification, some even maintaining that he never closed anything beyond a Number 2!

It seems to me that there are a small handful of vocal critics, some of whom are a lot stronger, younger, and taller than Joe Kinney. Yet Joe Kinney is apparently such a badass that he scares them. Why? Just maybe, maybe, he was a better gripster than they ever dreamed of being. And that is a pretty scary thing when a chunk of your life is invested in pushing yourself to the maximum. Some undersized hillbilly from Tennessee, in his prime, just may have been better than you are now, were, or ever will be.

[Chuck Hench]

While I respect and appreciate a lot of people on the Gripboard, including Jedd, I strongly disagree with the narrative they push against Joe to the point that it turns me off from gripsport entirely. Any thoughts I've previously had about going to competitions or meeting people quickly leave my mind. Every few months I'll check over there to see what people are talking about and I did the other day. Surprise, another locked Kinney thread full of accusations and vitriol. It disgusts me. With such a small community, this divisive behavior does nothing to benefit the sport nor does locking every thread without actually discussing it. It isn't a dead horse subject either. I dont blame Joe for staying out of it at all. I would too.

[Joe Kinney]

Well, that’s quite a post, Mike. I’m only going to comment on one point for now - the assertions some have made that I have never closed anything beyond a CoC #2. Some get even more specific in their claims. I’ve read ‘elsewhere’ that I was never witnessed closing anything stronger than a #2. This will be fun to address.

The anti-Kinney sect has legislated special requirements - which they demand be applied ex post facto, in my case. Two of these, that my witnesses be men of “grip prowess” and that they “really know their $#!+ about grippers”, can be subsumed into one, basically. However, the witness I will be citing is one who meets both of the aforementioned requirements - in spades. He is also a man who everyone in this discussion trusts and respects. He is Heath Sexton.

Heath Sexton’s story about meeting me is posted on this forum at post # 149 of the “Beast” thread. In there, we find Heath stating, in part, the following:

“… … I showed him my BTR #3. I cut the handle in half all the way up to the center line, this is a pretty hard gripper, I asked him if he thought that was enough cut, etc etc... I also said, "people say this can weaken the spring." "Hmm, I wouldn't think so" and he gives it a playful squeeze, taking it down to right around 1/4", this is closed on my other #3's. He squeezed a lot of grippers, but never turned loose on anything, it was all casual.”

The anti-Kinney sect claims to be interested in the facts. Here are some facts:

My meeting with Heath was more than four years after I quit grip training.
More than four years after I quit grip training, I closed Heath's BTR #3 down to “around 1/4””.
CoC gripper handles are ¾” in diameter.
Cutting one in half (for BTR training), as Heath did with the subject gripper, increases the range of the gripper an additional 3/8”, and;
Closing such a modified gripper to 1/4” away from touching the handles is equivalent to closing the subject gripper 1/8” past its original fully closed position.
I gave Heath's BTR #3 gripper “a playful squeeze”, as Heath stated.
I “never turned loose on anything, it was all casual.”, as Heath stated
Heath judges the subject gripper to be “a pretty hard gripper.”

So, Heath meets the anti-Kinney sect’s requirements and witnessed me not only close a CoC #3 gripper, but close that gripper past what would have been "fully closed" on an unmodified CoC #3. Of particular note is the fact that he didn’t witness me really “turn[] loose on anything.” As he wrote; it was a playful squeeze and was done casually. He witnessed this performed on a gripper that he owned, and this was witnessed more than four years after I quit grip training. These are the facts.

To me, 1/8” beyond the range isn’t significant, but it is something that needs to be considered in this discussion. Grip training discussions are replete with people whining about not being able to get that last 1/8”, or 1/16”, or mm. In fact, I read an account somewhere about a guy who claimed to be some kind of grip king failing to close a regular CoC #3 gripper just a couple of months after he quit grip training!!! It’s a fact that his situation wasn’t casual, and his squeeze wasn’t playful. He was trying to win something, and he failed. That last little bit stopped him. Beyond the range training is the proven method for solving this problem. That’s a fact.

Four years after I quit grip training, I could still easily close a CoC #3 gripper. That’s a fact.

[Robert artmont]

Don’t forget, Joe...they say you didn’t have good technique (no deep set) so the handle being back in your hand means you should’ve been beyond an unmodified no.3!

[Joe Kinney]

It’s a good thing I certified on the CoC #4 before these geniuses came along and made it impossible. The way I heard it, I shouldn’t have been able to burst cans of beer, either. That was another thing the geniuses claimed was impossible. I never got the memo on that, so I just went ahead and burst dozens of beers and sodas. Oops.

My gripper placement / technique will remain the same. These guys are geniuses, so they should know there are extraordinary differences to be found among the hands of grip guys. What works for my hand, is very unlikely to work for most. I am not a member of the flat hand society.

My response to anyone who thinks there is something wrong with my gripper technique is as follows:

Unless your hand looks like the hand pictured below, you don’t know what you’re talking about.



Kinney

[Joe Kinney]

... ... I first became aware that there were Kinney skeptics in 2004. I never had visited a grip internet site, I had never met a "grip" person, until I entered a contest in 2004. A few months after I met a fellow young enough to be my son, he, a 2003 Captain of Crush, came back from the 2004 AOBS Dinner. There, a Strength Legend told him to view the Number 4 close that J Kinney does at the beginning of the Get A Grip video. He would see, the Legend said, a very fast close that was impossible to achieve. Less than two years later, I went to a birthday party for a Strength Enthusiast about 100 miles North of me. I politely listened and watched the tape showing what was described, not disclosing I had the tape and had watched it more than a few times. His source? Same fellow as my 20 something year old friend's source. He, like the younger fellow, was 100% certain it was fake. ... ...

Just so that everyone is clear on this; the supposed Strength Legend referred to here is none other than richard sorin. It wouldn’t be right for someone to read this thread and not know who started this whole mess. Other titles have been bestowed upon him as well, such as the Legend, the Legendary Legend, Grip Master, Grip King, and 1st CoC*. There are several more titles sorin is deserving of.

“… … impossible to achieve.” Just how unhinged and envious must someone be to claim such a thing? Competitors lose in countless and various sports every day – without waging vendettas against their fellow sportsmen. I readily admit that what sorin and others have done with blob lifting and thick bar lifts is impossible for me to achieve. Being able to admit such things isn’t a big deal; it’s just part of being an adult. Clearly, sorin is incapable of such behavior.

*The asterisk by “1st CoC” is there because sorin was his own witness for his questionable #3 certification. There will be more on this topic in the future.

[Joe Kinney]

... ... "Worse, it refers the viewer to Gripboard.com to "research" if the viewer wants to learn more." ... ...

This is intriguing. Jedd referred his viewers to a place that is very biased with regard to this topic – a place I’ve even heard described as:
“The Spawning Ground for All Things Anti-Kinney”.

In fact, Jedd referred his viewers to the very place one would refer someone if they wanted to be certain that the truth on this topic was never discovered.

If anyone really wants to research this topic, the IronMind forum is absolutely the best place to do it. The G.O.P.D. thread, despite carrying some distasteful content, is a great thread for researching this topic. There, the reader will learn that the insinuations / allegations of fraud against me are groundless and false. The reader will also find that all the questions, suspicions, and other feigned doubts carried in Jedd’s video have already been addressed. Jedd is a member of this forum, and is fully aware of the G.O.P.D. thread. He knows where the answers to his feigned doubts are to be found. Yet, he steers his viewers away from those answers, and directly to a place where the whole truth on this topic can never be learned. It appears as though Jedd doesn’t want people to know the truth. This is not a good look.

This forum carries more than the truth about those allegations of fraud being false – far more. The G.O.P.D. thread also details the history of sorin’s (two decades +) campaign of deceit, character assassination and rumor mongering – the very root of the aforementioned allegations*. Inquiry into this topic is simply not allowed at the ‘forum’ Jedd referred his viewers to. There, sorin (a major sponsor) is protected by the moderators (one of whom is Jedd) from any scrutiny or serious inquiry.

On this forum, nobody is protected from inquiry. This is acceptable to me, but not to sorin. Five years ago, I was quite active here, and was questioned and scrutinized for more than a year. However, sorin ran away (to the protection of that ‘forum’ he sponsors) when people began looking into his underhanded efforts to destroy my reputation. He was exposed, and identified as the person driving the anti-Kinney narrative. His cohorts were revealed, and the entire scheme was eventually exposed – and traced directly back to him.

*Make no mistake; sorin knows this anti-Kinney nonsense he started is a pack of lies. His goal was to make others believe it - and spread it. He is directly responsible for creating a rift in this sport that is so wide, and so long-lived, the sport will probably never be completely free of its stench.
Nobody has done more damage to grip sport than richard sorin - Nobody.

[Joe Kinney]

... ... I first became aware that there were Kinney skeptics in 2004. I never had visited a grip internet site, I had never met a "grip" person, until I entered a contest in 2004. A few months after I met a fellow young enough to be my son, he, a 2003 Captain of Crush, came back from the 2004 AOBS Dinner. There, a Strength Legend told him to view the Number 4 close that J Kinney does at the beginning of the Get A Grip video. He would see, the Legend said, a very fast close that was impossible to achieve. Less than two years later, I went to a birthday party for a Strength Enthusiast about 100 miles North of me. I politely listened and watched the tape showing what was described, not disclosing I had the tape and had watched it more than a few times. His source? Same fellow as my 20 something year old friend's source. He, like the younger fellow, was 100% certain it was fake.... ...

So, we know sorin was working to destroy somebody's reputation at the AOBS in 2004. Now, let’s have a look at what sorin was doing at the AOBS ten years after the event Mike referred to. The following quotes are sourced from the G.O.P.D. thread. They are quotes from things sorin originally posted ‘elsewhere’ on the internet. These quotes don’t really qualify as sentences. I call them sorinisms, and provide translations where are they posted, at G.O.P.D., post # 3188.

Posted 09 October 2014 - 12:59 PM
“Going to AOBS dinner this weekend, … ... I have some hand written, signed information I should as well include a letter that might prove interesting reading of certain aspects of now deliberately blurred grip history.” emphasis added

Posted 11 October 2014 - 02:53 PM
“Had a great day meeting the ones that created the Iron game. … … A few noted grip experts were interested by reading a letter that the the first 4 ever shut , had been never seen by anyone of grip mastery was in fact "stole" and replaced for a later video with a borrowed gripper.” … ...

Posted 13 October 2014 - 09:45 AM
… … “Did get to see grip expert Bob Bollenbech assess some of my original grip equipment I used and get to read and understand the facts and evolution of the #4 better .” … …

So, it’s clear that a decade later, sorin was still working diligently at destroying the other guy’s reputation, and spreading his pack of lies as far as possible.

The subject letter (available for viewing at GOPD, post 2171 and 2181) mentions nothing about a borrowed gripper being used as a replacement or being used in a video. Some have argued, in sorin’s defense, that he didn’t correctly comprehend what was written in the letter (essentially claiming sorin is too stupid to read and comprehend the most basic English). This might be true. However, sorin’s misrepresentation makes more sense when viewed as intentional (a lie), and designed to 'deliberately blur (distort) grip history’.

The deceit and rumor mongering sorin was engaged in at the two AOBS events cited above probably netted him a few more gullible followers. Even so, this pales in comparison to what he managed to bring about earlier in his scheme - a scheme that resulted in verifiable, illicit “deliberately blurred grip history”*. That’s right, if any grip history has been ‘deliberately blurred’; sorin is the one who blurred it.

After more than two decades of sorin spreading his lies and sowing the seeds of doubt, it’s no wonder we have guys like Jedd running around, very confident in what they think they ‘know’.

* Details regarding this particular chapter of sorin's scheme, and the result it achieved, will be posted in the near future.

[Mike Corlett]

I started this thread because I thought the Youtube video was over the top. And I still do.

Since then, I have gone back and read quite a bit of the "GOPD Thread", and saw there was way more discussion of this than I remembered. Other than Joe being far more direct this time, there is not much that is new in the way of information, which I admit is surprising that many of the points brought up by Joe on this thread were discussed in 2014.

Joe, you went years being quiet. Then five years ago you definitely stopped sitting on the sidelines. This time around, it's downright intense. I know the Youtube video had to be tough to watch. Do you mind me asking why it seems like it is more personal this time?

[Joe Kinney]

I started this thread because I thought the Youtube video was over the top. And I still do.

Since then, I have gone back and read quite a bit of the "GOPD Thread", and saw there was way more discussion of this than I remembered. Other than Joe being far more direct this time, there is not much that is new in the way of information, which I admit is surprising that many of the points brought up by Joe on this thread were discussed in 2014.

Joe, you went years being quiet. Then five years ago you definitely stopped sitting on the sidelines. This time around, it's downright intense. I know the Youtube video had to be tough to watch. Do you mind me asking why it seems like it is more personal this time?

Yes; I mind, but I’ll still answer. It is personal. Consider the following:

At last check, Jedd’s video had less than 5000 views. Most of the viewers are probably members of sorin’s ‘forum’ (S.T.A. manual, chapter eight). Many of those views are, undoubtedly, repeat views.

Over at sorin’s ‘forum’, Jedd has immediate unfettered access (both as a member, and a moderator) to nearly 19,000 members. Added to this, anyone even remotely interested in Jedd’s opinion on this topic is already aware of sorin’s ‘forum’, as well as this real forum. Why, then, would he feel the need to make a YouTube video about this? He must be seeking a different audience – an audience other than grip guys.

Well it worked. Try to imagine a video like Jedd’s, with your name on it, Mike. Try to imagine that video being discovered by your granddaughter. Think about that for a few minutes. Then, you’ll understand. Don’t forget all the heinous comments (which Jedd is in complete control of), and Jedd’s replies to those comments. Children are viewing that sewage.

Five years ago, it seemed to be about getting answers to questions, for the most part. Now, however, it’s obvious that this is about destroying the other guy’s reputation – even to the point of seeing to it that people two generations away from the event are served a strong dose of sorin’s poison. It’s clear to me that Jedd intended to spread that poison as far and wide as possible with his video. Acting as though his questions and fake doubts have never been addressed is a very dishonest approach. He’s being used like a rubber by sorin, but isn’t ‘aware’ enough to realize it.

So; has Jedd strengthened or damaged his reputation by being sorin’s tool? He seemed to have a pretty good reputation prior to this incident*. I’m curious to know what others think of this guy now. Feel free to use the private message system.


*There was that questionable incident where he pussed out when sorin kept changing the blob curling rules. As I recall; others, un-involved in the feat, had to jump in and tell sorin to ŜŤ₣ up. Being seen as submissive to a weasel like sorin isn’t good for a man’s reputation.

[Mike Corlett]

your[/U] name on it, Mike. Try to imagine that video being discovered by your granddaughter. Think about that for a few minutes. Then, you’ll understand..

I have two granddaughters. One is two and the other is seven. You?

[Joe Kinney]

I have two granddaughters. One is two and the other is seven. You?

One 7 year old

[Mike Corlett]

One 7 year old

My wife has no interest in things “grip”, contests, The Iron Game, etc. Her first grandchild was our now 7-year-old granddaughter . I told her that Joe Kinney’s 7 year old granddaughter discovered a YouTube video discussing whether her grandfather was a Fraud. In a nutshell, my wife wigged out, and I cannot repeat what she said. She had an uncharacteristically long rant discussion of how that would make her feel. Anger would be an understatement.
My wife certainly has no dog in the fight, and it was a type of independent reality check for me. I’m sorry for not understanding earlier.

[Joe Kinney]

.....

[Joe Kinney]

No problem, Mike. You’re not responsible for any of this. This whole ordeal was started by a jealous coward – a man who I tried to be easy on five years ago. I’ve known about the plaster cast lies since 2010, but didn’t want to damage sorin’s counterfeit reputation in the eyes of his puppets. The same goes for sorin’s accusations about ‘deliberately blurred grip history’. Five years ago, only one guy thought to ask questions close to the bone on this ‘grip history’ topic. Even though I’ve known about this illicet behavior since 2002, I let sorin off the hook. We’ll get to that soon enough, though.

For now; have a look at the series of photographs posted below. The top row shows a CoC 3.5 gripper closed approximately 1 inch (2” tall dowel), compared to the plaster cast sorin concocted. Do the two grippers pictured in the top row appear to be closed the same distance?

In the bottom row, we have a picture of the same CoC 3.5 gripper; again compared to sorin’s plaster cast photo. The angles of the handles are nearly identical in this comparison. Plus; you can see that I’m putting the same amount of effort into squeezing the gripper shut that sorin did in his epic struggle – exactly NONE.

There’s a tremendous difference between the ‘suspicion’ sorin uses to deceive people, and the clear photographic evidence that proves his plaster cast story is a pack of lies. Yet; we’ve got Jedd producing his hatchet job video against a guy who he admits he knows very little about, and has no evidence against. At the same time, Jedd doesn’t express any doubt whatsoever about the man who, the evidence shows, has deceived a multitude of people in and around this sport.

So; I have to ask: Has Jedd been hoodwinked by sorin; or is he knowingly spreading sorin’s poison like an obedient stooge?

[Jeff Roark]

Having went and visited Heath Sexton shortly after he went and visited Joe Kinney, he told me exactly all these same things. Sort of funny that even beyond the closing of the grippers he couldn't quit talking about the size of Joe's thumbs.

[Mike Corlett]

Quote:

I get asked from time to time if I think Joe was real. Or more so his close of the ironmind no.4.

I had an email from him around 2004 I believe, he is a very nice and intelligent chap.

He certified the no.4 using the certification process at the time. So of course is certified on the no.4 and I have seen the photo.

I’ve see the clip on YouTube. I understand why some think it’s fake but I don’t. By no means would I try to persuade anyone’s opinion on this, that’s not who I am.

End Quote

Nathan Holle, Reddit
August, 2020

[Mike Corlett]

Here is a recent (during September, 2020) Youtube video, a long (39 minute) interview with Nathan Holle. There are five men Certified by IronMind on the Captains of Crush Number 4 gripper. Nathan was the second to Certify, done in 2003. He is, to my knowledge, the only one of the five who certified that has continued to train on grippers consistently after having certified. He is respected and considered the Real Deal by virtually everyone in the Grip World.

Check out the question posed to him right after 3:15 on the video, when the question was asked of him as to whether he thought Joe Kinney had legitimately closed the Number 4 gripper.

Nathan Holle of Wales apparently does not share the same view as the majority of the "Youtube posters" on the Diesel Crew video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvTSM5uKVlo

[Chuck Hench]

The herd has already made up their mind and they will just choose to forget what Nathan says about Joe.

[Mike Corlett]

I read something on Youtube that referenced this thread. It was mentioned that there is no way that the posts on this thread were written by Joe Kinney. One person said he wrote like a professor.

Over the last three years, I have spoken to Joe Kinney on the phone. His voice sounds like the same guy in his videos. I have received many many texts from him for over four years. I have snail mailed him, and he has snail mailed me.

I can assure you that the fellow who posts on this forum under the name of Joe Kinney is the same Joe Kinney featured in both of his videos, who co-authored a book for IronMind, and whose photo has been in a number of issues of MILO Magazine.

His tenacity for improving himself in whatever he sets out to do is extremely high. That obviously included working on his communication skills. However, I personally do not think he writes anything like a professor.