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Basic training for throwers

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  • Basic training for throwers

    Anyone out there have any experience either coaching top throwers, or being one?

    If so, could you please lay out a basic training program for a thrower or share some thoughts about what to/not to do?

  • #2
    Good idea, Randall.
    I'm all ears.
    Though having trawled Nasgaweb since I started 2 years ago:
    Quick lifts, throw a lot and try and remove bad habits.
    And throw more!
    Doctor, Strongman, Highland Games athlete...amongst other things.

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    • #3
      Excellent post Randall as I know alot of our athletes are always looking for training tips, technique help, etc.
      North American Highlander Association, Inc.
      "The Ultimate Test of Strength and Athleticism"
      www.nahighlander.com

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      • #4
        Where's Pulcinella when you need him?

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        • #5
          Signing autographs?

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          • #6
            I have an old video of a shot putter named Werner Gunther (sp?) that is pretty good. It's dated and I'm sure today's throwers have changed things around some but it's a fun video to watch and does give some insight as to how a world class thrower trained at that time period.

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            • #7
              Chris -

              Any chance that you'd be willing to distill some training principles from this or maybe even some workout ideas?

              Either way, thanks much for mentioning this resource.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Randall Strossen View Post
                Signing autographs?
                Now that is funny!

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                • #9
                  I am sure that he will not mind, so I will share a few things that Matt Sandford shared with me the other day:
                  Lifting is only to increase the power of throwing - it is not the main aim.
                  Never throw after lifting or when fatigued from it - it will change your form.
                  The thing to try and find in a throw is relaxation to the point where you can feel the weight in your hand. If you are all tense and trying to overpower the weight, you will be shortening your radius and limiting your distance.
                  It is better to throw for a feel than a distance. He always tried to finish a session with a throw that felt good rather than a long throw that didn't.
                  He emphasised the importance of looking for the feel of a throw rather than distance.
                  He believed in "on the day" adrenaline adding enough distance as long as the feel is there - the technique will be better.

                  I am very fortunate that he shared it with me.
                  There are no real secrets - this is already out there - but when a guy who was as good as Matt tells you something personally - it sinks in more.
                  Doctor, Strongman, Highland Games athlete...amongst other things.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Lance.Holland-Keen View Post
                    I am sure that he will not mind, so I will share a few things that Matt Sandford shared with me the other day:
                    Lifting is only to increase the power of throwing - it is not the main aim.
                    Never throw after lifting or when fatigued from it - it will change your form.
                    The thing to try and find in a throw is relaxation to the point where you can feel the weight in your hand. If you are all tense and trying to overpower the weight, you will be shortening your radius and limiting your distance.
                    It is better to throw for a feel than a distance. He always tried to finish a session with a throw that felt good rather than a long throw that didn't.
                    He emphasised the importance of looking for the feel of a throw rather than distance.
                    He believed in "on the day" adrenaline adding enough distance as long as the feel is there - the technique will be better.

                    I am very fortunate that he shared it with me.
                    There are no real secrets - this is already out there - but when a guy who was as good as Matt tells you something personally - it sinks in more.
                    Lance,

                    Give my regards to Matt when you next see him.... he gave me some very good advice when I competed with him many years ago.

                    You are very lucky to have him on hand for advice, he is a very talented Athlete.

                    Send him my best wishes, and good luck with your Throwing.

                    Laine

                    Lain

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                    • #11
                      Lance, I am not sure how many people can follow what Matt did. Lets face it, the guy was an original. And he was off the hook for power and speed. I think the way to learn is to throw with better throwers. No matter how long you have been throwing you improve and learn. I was talking to Craig Smith this weekend and he was telling me how KO tuned up one of his throws. He is also talking about his stone and something he found there. I know Dave Barron is also in the kitchen cooking up something these days. No matter what level you are, your not satisfied, if you are, then you not good or going to be.

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                      • #12
                        Myles - wondered when you'd show up here

                        You're of course right.
                        Throwing with better throwers makes a massive difference.
                        I have always been impressed that when Pat Hellier is throwing at our games here (I would say competed against - but there wasn't really much competition coming from me!) that he still thinks about how to throw better.
                        He could go out with most throws and just win, but that's not the point is it? He's also very helpful in giving tips.

                        I am also very lucky at the moment to have a very talented ex shot putter (the top junior Aussie in his time) who I train shot/stone with. As he also dabbled in hammer (was the 2nd best when he was a junior in some competitions!) he also has the technical knowledge there. He is more of a thrower than a coach - but it helps

                        Another thing that I found VERY helpful, was videoing myself. I trained with another thrower a couple of weeks ago, the shot was ****, we videoed ourselves, suddenly could see the glaring mistakes and correct them. I think that to train without this simple and effective tool at my level (2 years this year!) is probably going to be wasting some time.
                        I'm sure with progression, and being able to feel what you are doing, having drilled it so often, the benefits may reduce - but then again, as Ryan (the shotputter says) as you get better, the smaller the technical aspects are that must be corrected. In the beginning, just fixing body position etc will gain a lot of distance (hopefully).

                        Laine, unfortunately, I have yet to meet Matt face to face. There's the small matter of about 10 hours driving preventing it!
                        But I will certainly try and remember you to him when I speak next (which might be when I ask for a loan of his heavyweight to replace the bloody awful lump of steel that passes for my HWFD at the moment).

                        I remain with ears wide open on this thread.
                        And especially, hope that I can maybe, just maybe, edge a place in the IHGF amateurs from here and possibly meet some of you guys as well, in the future.
                        Doctor, Strongman, Highland Games athlete...amongst other things.

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                        • #13
                          follow the leader

                          ryan vierra is the consummate highland athlete; i have met the man and he is that, a whole entire man. ryan has a website here http://www.ryanvierrausa.com/, and has helped more scottish games athletes make improvements in their game than any other single force in the sport.

                          i encourage anyone wanting to make drastic advances in this unique and rewarding sport to follow the leader, contact ryan.

                          best rgds

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                          • #14
                            very brief synopsis

                            basic outline:

                            heavy lifting = off season because heavy weights=slow movements

                            once season starts use only 4 lifts or so( mine where power clean, push press, squat,incline press.

                            decrease volume and weight as you increase your throwing, mid season( roughly) only about 60 percent ( weight), but movements should be quick and explosive.

                            about 1- 1.5 months from nationals/worlds /ect. ( individuals may vary) ...no weights only throw

                            I know, I know it doesn't feel right, but i spent years over training for the highland games, and it took a 5 hour flight sitting next to Dave McKenzie ( ex u.s record for Olympic hammer) telling me all the throwers secrets and i was over training.
                            o.k o.k not all their secrets..lmao

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                            • #15
                              Great thread and with very knowledgable people weighing in to the conversation. Here are some of my thoughts on the thread.

                              1) Werner Gunther throwing video is amazing and great food for thought. It is on YouTube and I have a copy as well in its entirety.

                              2) Matt Sanford and Ryan Vierra are gold standards in Highland Games. Ryan has a DVD series you can purchase which well worth the money. As Myles said, hook in with better throwers and use them as a resource if you can (like Lance having Matt around). I know Petur Gudmundsson and Don Stewart have helped me and I cannot repay them but I can pass on what I have learned.

                              3) Throwing IS lifting. All the thoughts about pulling back the lifting is right on during the Highland Games season. Really, why not go after the caber in a really hard session if you want to improve pulling power? The only way to get better at the events is to practice the events.

                              4) Lifting needs to be fast. Power snatch, power clean, push jerk, squats with some speed to them are good during the season. I personally think that getting the deadlift up in the off season is helpful however. Obviously listen to Phil's advice about lifting.

                              5) One last personal thought on the weight throws is that radius and torque = distance. That is over simplified because there is separation of the weight from the body, timing and keeping the feet on the ground as much as possible but if you are doing those things you will generate more torque.

                              Keep this going guys, Bill

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                              • #16
                                Old thread I know but to add to it Ryan Vierra has some great you tube training videos that have a lot of great ideas for drills and lifting.

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