Jim Splaine's Dinnie lifts - Hook Grip?

[Magnus Gustafsson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYY8ZGQJ7b4 Great video overall, but check out 4:12 and forward in particular. Is he using hook grip?

[Randall Strossen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYY8ZGQJ7b4 Great video overall, but check out 4:12 and forward in particular. Is he using hook grip?

[Magnus Gustafsson]

Yes, but the resolution is too poor for me to tell. If he does than I guess it would help explain how a <150 lbs guy has managed to hoist the big stone by its thick ring at least 64 times over the past decades(!); the grip element has been mostly removed and the pain threshold element greatly amplified. Both styles are of course legitimate unassisted lifts, just different. In the video he makes references to his style of lifting in a way that leads to me believe he may have a background in Olympic weightlifting. Not a bad way to develop a strong hook grip and pain threshold...

[Randall Strossen]

Yes, but the resolution is too poor for me to tell. If he does than I guess it would help explain how a <150 lbs guy has managed to hoist the big stone by its thick ring at least 64 times over the past decades(!); the grip element has been mostly removed and the pain threshold element greatly amplified. Both styles are of course legitimate unassisted lifts, just different. In the video he makes references to his style of lifting in a way that leads to me believe he may have a background in Olympic weightlifting. Not a bad way to develop a strong hook grip and pain threshold...

Magnus -

I kind of zipped through the video but didn't he mention that there was some controversy about the split he uses to lift the stones?

I think, at least for his body (and given the pain tolerance factor you pointed out), this style gives him the best mechanics . . . it was like he was locking out his legs with a camming action and while he might shake and it might even take more than one attempt to hit lockout, but he could consistently lift the stones this way.

Weren't his thumbs taped? If so, that's another indication that you are correct about guessing that he might be using a hook grip.

[Magnus Gustafsson]

Magnus -

I kind of zipped through the video but didn't he mention that there was some controversy about the split he uses to lift the stones?

I think, at least for his body (and given the pain tolerance factor you pointed out), this style gives him the best mechanics . . . it was like he was locking out his legs with a camming action and while he might shake and it might even take more than one attempt to hit lockout, but he could consistently lift the stones this way.

Weren't his thumbs taped? If so, that's another indication that you are correct about guessing that he might be using a hook grip.

Yeah, he calls it an unorthodox combination of a a Japanese type technique (what is that anyway?) and another technique that I can't make out the name of.

The thumbs do look taped, good call!

[Alex Roberts]

It sounds like he is saying a cross between a Japanese type lift and a Russian type lift.

[Randall Strossen]

Yeah, he calls it an unorthodox combination of a a Japanese type technique (what is that anyway?) and another technique that I can't make out the name of.

The thumbs do look taped, good call!

It sounds like he is saying a cross between a Japanese type lift and a Russian type lift.

[Alex Roberts]

I was thinking Sumo deadlift for some reason,no idea why.Randall,your explanation seems reasonable enough to me.

[Randall Strossen]

I was thinking Sumo deadlift for some reason,no idea why.Randall,your explanation seems reasonable enough to me.

Alex -

I think that's a good idea in terms of melding styles - it looks like Jim uses a lot of leg strength (relative to back strength) on this, although the camera is focusing more on his lower body than on his whole body as he is lifting, wasn't it?

[Alex Roberts]

To me,his legs move far more than his hands do.He is using his legs a lot with a small back lockout.Did I explain that enough?
When I lifted the Dinnie stones,my legs are quite short,so had to pull a lot with my back,rather the opposite of his lifting style.

[Randall Strossen]

To me,his legs move far more than his hands do.He is using his legs a lot with a small back lockout.Did I explain that enough?
When I lifted the Dinnie stones,my legs are quite short,so had to pull a lot with my back,rather the opposite of his lifting style.

Yes, perfectly, and I agree.

[Alex Roberts]

Yes, perfectly, and I agree.

Thank you.I fear I may have pulled this thread off course slightly,apologies.
Getting back to his grip,from what I can make.out,it looks like a hook grip to me,but.it is really hard to tell.I experimented with hooking when training for the stones.myself.It.lasted two weeks before I gave up,and vowed to put.more work in on the grip machine,anything rather than hook.

[Magnus Gustafsson]

Thank you.I fear I may have pulled this thread off course slightly,apologies.
Getting back to his grip,from what I can make.out,it looks like a hook grip to me,but.it is really hard to tell.I experimented with hooking when training for the stones.myself.It.lasted two weeks before I gave up,and vowed to put.more work in on the grip machine,anything rather than hook.

Was the grip machine your primary prep for the lift then? How much could you deadlift at the time?

[Alex Roberts]

Good question,I used the grip machine as my main grip training for lifting the Dinnie stones,a mix of higher reps,and heavy holds,but really only twice a week.I did not train anything else on those days and a workout would last about 45 minutes.Maybe starting with high rep warm ups then progressively heavier triples and doubles until I could not rep anymore,then did the holds.Plenty of rest between sets and lots of moving about.
I stopped deadlifting,and trained exclusively on my Dinnie trainer rings.I lifted 3 times a week,singles only except for warming up.Again plenty of rest between singles.Before I trained for the Dinnie stones,I was mainly using the Trap bar and would say a max single would have been around 270kg,so not big numbers at all.
I doubt I could lift that number now,as I really only train with stones.

[Magnus Gustafsson]

Good question,I used the grip machine as my main grip training for lifting the Dinnie stones,a mix of higher reps,and heavy holds,but really only twice a week.I did not train anything else on those days and a workout would last about 45 minutes.Maybe starting with high rep warm ups then progressively heavier triples and doubles until I could not rep anymore,then did the holds.Plenty of rest between sets and lots of moving about.
I stopped deadlifting,and trained exclusively on my Dinnie trainer rings.I lifted 3 times a week,singles only except for warming up.Again plenty of rest between singles.Before I trained for the Dinnie stones,I was mainly using the Trap bar and would say a max single would have been around 270kg,so not big numbers at all.
I doubt I could lift that number now,as I really only train with stones.

Very cool info, thanks!

[Alex Roberts]

Mentioning the Dinnie stones had me looking back at all my pics of the lift and my previous failures with the stones.
On the subject of deadlifts and the Dinnie stones.
I mentioned being quite short in the leg,the large stone is quite wide.My stance was so wide,all my legs did was support me.I don't think they contributed to the actual lift much at all.So comparing a deadlift to the Dinnie lift is not that accurate.
For.me it was more like a rack pull,with only six inch of movement.I really struggled getting the big stone off the floor,not so much the weight,but when it lifts,it tips.I almost felt,I would have been better,if I had stood on some 4 inch blocks,if you understand?
My lift was all but a back lockout.
Apologies for waffling on.

[Alex Roberts]

Very cool info, thanks!

No problem,your welcome.

[Bill Crawford]

Great thread. Lifting the stones barehanded is the key. I guess I am okay with lifting them with a hook grip but "Ouch". That sounds painful.

As for training to lift the Dinnies, I made several Dinnie Stone replicas up to a big set that was close to the weight of the actual stones. The bulkiness of the Dinnies should also be considered so I made the replicas by using a hammer drill to make holes for posts that I can put in and out of the stones. I agree with Alex as well, as I really stopped deadlifting with a barbell in my preparation and really only pulled on the Dinnie replicas, a la Jack Shanks. What was helpful too was to do heavy one handed lifts to strengthen the hands even further. The only barbell exercise I do to prepare is to squat, leaving the pulls specifically to ring lifting.

Bill

[Alex Roberts]

Good points Bill.
The bulkiness of the large stone contributed much to my training considerations second time around.When I first trained for the stones,I used plate loaded trainers.Right up until me visiting the stones,I was lifting well over the weight of the actual stones,200kg and 165kg,if my memory is correct,I thought I had it in the bag.What I had not allowed for was the size of the larger stone and it tipping when lifted.
I had trained.with a narrow stance and had plenty of clearance when lifting in training,and it allowed me to partially use my legs.
When I attempted the stones,I found I had to stand much wider to clear the larger stone,and it totally threw me.I had to lift more with my back,and getting enough clearance off the ground was a problem,due to the wide stance.
When I started training second time around,I made sure I trained with a very wide stance,probably wider than I needed.
I did try squatting,but found I never really recovered enough to give the ring lifts 100%.

[Magnus Gustafsson]

Good points Bill.
The bulkiness of the large stone contributed much to my training considerations second time around.When I first trained for the stones,I used plate loaded trainers.Right up until me visiting the stones,I was lifting well over the weight of the actual stones,200kg and 165kg,if my memory is correct,I thought I had it in the bag.What I had not allowed for was the size of the larger stone and it tipping when lifted.
I had trained.with a narrow stance and had plenty of clearance when lifting in training,and it allowed me to partially use my legs.
When I attempted the stones,I found I had to stand much wider to clear the larger stone,and it totally threw me.I had to lift more with my back,and getting enough clearance off the ground was a problem,due to the wide stance.
When I started training second time around,I made sure I trained with a very wide stance,probably wider than I needed.
I did try squatting,but found I never really recovered enough to give the ring lifts 100%.

Also very good to know. I have been toying around with the idea of making a plywood enclosure around my replica loading pins that will resemble the footprint of the stones and what you are saying here convinces me I should pursue this. I have also debated with myself if I should offset the large ring from the center line of the pin to induce an element of tipping, but implementing that level of refinement probably only makes sense for somebody who has a good reference frame, ie has actually lifted the large stone and experienced its tipping tendency. I have not and don't expect to get the opportunity anytime soon.