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Drugs: The Coward's Way

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  • #21
    Even if roids were most healthy thing in this universe i would have hard time understanding use of them if they are against rules. Using roids in drug-free competition is like using bench shirt in raw lifting. Only my opinion of course.

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    • #22
      Very true. Fortunately...

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by Steve Gardener View Post
        Ian and Bill. As with a recent rant of sorts by Gerrard Ian's response is based on his own experience as a former user of drugs and alcohol - in his words - to escape. He then, his words, trains in strength sports to escape again into his 'sanctuary' and to look for a healthy 'addiction'. Gerrard, if you looked, was up to no good (inferring being a drunken idiot, fighting and possible criminal activity).

        I'd say the issues lay with you. Nothing that either of you did was healthy. Equally I'm in no great rush to do what you've done in the past. If, as I have made public, I then choose (on occasion) to use steroids you don;'t have to choose to join me. So how come if you think 'roids are bad' (echos of South Park lol) I'm supposed to do that too?

        The drink, drugs and other habits you've previously had are FAR worse than any of mine. It's obvious that there are many things either of us could be doing which can be damaging to our bodies. Heck, I'm more likely to strain and or tear something on a weekly basis just from working out. My 35 years of training remind me via my left shoulder (possible spurs), right bicep (bench injury), tendonitis in the forearm (world record grip craziness) and two partially prolapsed discs that every time I go crazy in the gym I risk something. I drink, but in moderation, have never smoked, never taken any other recreational drugs EVER, don't abuse painkillers and strangely enough I'm not in the habit - as a once a year roid user - of coming on here preaching to get you to use.

        I've argued on many an occasion from my own experience: I trained for 22 years and then, at age 37, 'dabbled' with my first cycle. On that single occasion it wasn't in the run up to a competition. I think I was about 264lbs or so before I started. I suffer, as far as I know, with ZERO issues, associated with my roid use. I'm guessing your habits of old are more likely to bite you on the ass as you get older than mine. I've three brothers, all younger, with more gray hair and lines on their faces than I have (a few of both though). Could it be my mostly sensible 22+ pre roids and 35 years total training and eating habits, no smoking (they all have) and light drinking (they all drink more regularly or just more full stop) has damaged their bodies more than I've damaged mine? I think so.

        I've pointed out that ANYONE with a vague historical interest in our sport can find examples of 'use' and abuse going back to the early Olympics. That's not just in weightlifting but ALL sports pretty much through all recorded history. From wearing sandals when others ran barefoot to eating bulls balls / testicles for their 'power' (roids in their infancy). I've pointed out humans screw with themselves even in a non 'getting of my face' kinda way (as you once did) far more than roids. I recalled writing a John Romano quote about the ways people end up in ER (aka A&E here) in the US of A. Roids rated 120th or so. Even then it wasn't the liver tumors and other possible side effects; it was the **** poor injection techniques leading to infections and absesses. Also, here in the UK, it's NOT illegal. Not everyone that lifts is living in the US.

        You'll appreciate, of course, that if you offer a strongly worded opinion (heartfelt as it was), you must be prepared to be countered with one.
        Steve:
        You continue to try to discredit those people who are trying to stop people like yourself from proliferating illegal drugs. I heard about things that used to go on at your gym in Gloucester. When will you give up trying to act like you are this rational person who respects everybody's views and hates extremism when in fact you are one of that small minority who worship self destruction. Your protégé, Laurence Shahlaei, had a few good years but now he will have to face up to the fact that he has undermined the very solid foundation he had before he followed the pied piper. You may have trained hard but basically you are poisoned by envy of the genuine grip masters. Why not just take it on the chin and try to help people go the right way. How dare you try to speculate on my past (which is long forgotten and forgiven) to try to justify your continuing criminal behavior and subversive opinions.

        Comment


        • #24
          Ian, I'm glad to hear you are off of drugs. Now I've never taken drugs or steroids and not much of a drinker. I use to smoke but not very much. So I can not relate to addiction on the same level as you. However to call someone a coward just because they use steroids is not quite right. Some just do it to get big, stronger, or perform better. Not beingable to cope with things has nothing to do with it. Please don't judge others cause you were there once for different reasons. Just represent strongman the best you can. I have known many people over the years who used steroids and none that I can think of would I consider cowardly. One even saved my life in a heroic fashion. Brother just lift have fun and look how far you have gone and where you will be Lord willing on another five years. A gentle answer can accomplish more than a rant. I do understand your frustration. Its not fair to compete in events where guys are using steroids. But its fun when I can beat them regardless. And if you or I can help them get off of the juice how cool is that. Sorry for the rambling

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by Ian McCrae View Post
            This might sting a few of you, but I don't care. If you're one of "those people", you deserve to be stung. Some of you know my story, so it doesn't need repeating. Essentially I struggled with drug and alcohol addiction from ages 12 to 27, at which time I overdosed and came very close to losing my life. While in rehab counseling, I was told to find a replacement. A new addiction that wouldn't be self destructive. I chose strength sports, and eventually fell in love with Strongman. As I became more involved with the sport, however, I was shocked to see how rampant steroid use was, even on the amateur level. It offended me. This was my sanctuary, my place of safety, and it was being defiled by small, weak minded people. Cowards. Yes, you who engage in such filth are cowards. I was a coward. That's what defines a drug user. I was afraid to deal with life, and so I sought escape in the numb, cold world of narcotics. You who claim to be strong, yet pollute your bodies with poison, are also cowards. You fear the time, the commitment, the work it will take to achieve your goals. And so you fearfully scuttle to the den of profligacy. You are weak. You tout your prowess as if you were this great thing, yet you are an empty, vapid shell, bereft of anything resembling true strength. I came to the world of strength for safety, to escape the miasma of illicit substances, only to find its blackened claws firmly entrenched here as well. Some of you may know of my recent involvement with the United States Strength Coalition. You may view it as merely another strength federation, but you are greatly mistaken. It is part of a movement. It stands for something. The world of strength sports is changing, the day of cowards shall soon come to an end. Soon, YOU will be the anachronism. Soon, YOU will be the one that is obsolete. And that time cannot come soon enough for me. You have defiled and besmirched my cherished sanctuary, and I long to rid you from my world. You are no different than what I was, a pathetic junkie. You poison your body for instant gratification, caring little for the heavy price it demands of you. You defy the law, thinking yourself above such standards, in order to obtain this wicked substance. It is not too late, however. I implore you to reconsider your vile habit, as I did. And if you choose to stubbornly pursue your foolish course, then be prepared to levy the toll that will undoubtedly come. I am part of a movement, one I encourage you to join. If not, you truly are a coward.
            Ian: I really like this stuff you have written and thank you for supporting the cause of drug tested competitions. At one time the physical culture movement was at loggerheads with the pharmaceutical and processed food industries. Now our sport is governed by these market forces due to bad stewardship.
            You are 100% right about cowardice. My only experience with steroids was at a time when I was dependent on marijuana. I was afraid to go out and live life and felt pushed into a corner by bullies and so crawled into my shell. Even though I had achieved amazing things in the gym I undermined this by getting hooked on the weed and then trying to rectify the damage by using steroids before my first bodybuilding show.
            Instead of the show being a rite of passage and building my confidence I felt ashamed and empty. This had a knock on effect in other areas of my life also because I did not feel like I deserved to have any of the good things and did not have the patience or courage to fight my corner when I needed to at a crucial time.
            I realized that the only way out of this was to clean myself up totally: I gave up smoking and drinking, went back to college and started training harder than ever. I competed again the following year drug free in the WFBB Mr Wales despite the fact that the contest itself was non tested and presented a physique that looked just as good as any other on the stage at the time. Although I did not win the show (the eventual winner was James 'Flex' Lewis) I came away feeling like I had done my best and achieved something that some 'knowledgeable' people had said was impossible: going up in front of an audience at a non tested competition without one single person "laughing me off the stage" (or maybe my music was too loud and I just could not hear them).
            Through this whole process I realized that the only way to really 'win' is to conquer your demons. By using drugs you may give the appearance of success but in reality you are only sliding further down the muddy slope that you are trying to climb.
            I have every sympathy for those who are going through worse experiences than my own, but you can not allow such people to gain the advantage and pollute society to the detriment of others.

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by Gerard Matthews View Post

              Steve:
              You continue to try to discredit those people who are trying to stop people like yourself from proliferating illegal drugs. I heard about things that used to go on at your gym in Gloucester. When will you give up trying to act like you are this rational person who respects everybody's views and hates extremism when in fact you are one of that small minority who worship self destruction. Your protégé, Laurence Shahlaei, had a few good years but now he will have to face up to the fact that he has undermined the very solid foundation he had before he followed the pied piper. You may have trained hard but basically you are poisoned by envy of the genuine grip masters. Why not just take it on the chin and try to help people go the right way. How dare you try to speculate on my past (which is long forgotten and forgiven) to try to justify your continuing criminal behavior and subversive opinions.
              Laurence is NOT or ever was my protege. If anything Nick McKinless was. Feel free to state what you heard (a form of speculation - the irony). As for speculating: I found it by googling your name in connection with a religeous group. Here's the page:

              http://www.penmon.org/page81.htm

              It says it's quoting stating: '' RELIGION and weightlifting may seem like strange bedfellows - but for a Newtown weightlifter faith is the cornerstone of his success.
              Gerard Matthews turned his life around at 19 and steered away from bad habits, a lack of discipline and failing dreams.

              "I was the architect of my own downfall, my own worst enemy. I was harming myself and others around me. It was ruining my life," said Gerard. But a quiet trip in to the local Catholic Church changed his thoughts, his feelings and gave him inner strength.


              "If God hadn't intervened I would have probably ended up in jail."

              "I learnt to make the most of my true potential and to stop denying it. If he knows what your potential is, then by sticking to his guidelines, we can reach our true potential. A lot of people get the wrong idea, it's all about being humble. It's not about judging other people, more like judging yourself.


              It's worth noting your comments about not judging others, and letting them find their own paths. It clearly mentions you thought you were up to no good. This is what you've said about yourself.

              Now I've always said people should make their own judgement., In fact I said that to you and your protege (and he was) when we first met in person at Bodypower. I made a point of educating oneself, being of a certain age and so on. Feel free to ask Loz about any suggestion on my part as to what he might do 'roids' wise. Seriously - ask him.

              You refer to your smoking (I never have), use of weed (never smoked that either) and you state you've used steroids. Like Ian it, in essence, makes you 'born again' in a number of ways. The former smoker, never mind anything else, is often the most anti smoking when they decide to stop. Thus it seems the same here.

              If the self destructive reference is to do with roids then surely as a 'small minority' it's not an issue. Arguably it's the other way round - too many use and they are not a small minority.

              'Envy of genuine grip masters'... as opposed those holding a strongman title? We're all motivated by something. What drives you is a combination of bad boy made good (see above), a desire for strength (see many references to becoming a strongman (suggestions of winning previously described) - you are, of course, someone who is strong, and (as is obvious) to do this drug free.

              We've all got pasts. We've all got motivating factors. You wish I was drug free. I'm not suggesting you shouldn't be. Funny that.


              I've yet to urge someone to take steroids. I've yet to say they are a must. I've always pointed at the inaccuracies in the anti-drug rants. I've always been the one (here at least) to step forward and play devils advocate. If you offer an opinion it's equally ok to counter it. Heck, life may yet throw a spanner at me and have me change my stance.

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by Brian Hope View Post
                Ian, I'm glad to hear you are off of drugs. Now I've never taken drugs or steroids and not much of a drinker. I use to smoke but not very much. So I can not relate to addiction on the same level as you. However to call someone a coward just because they use steroids is not quite right. Some just do it to get big, stronger, or perform better. Not beingable to cope with things has nothing to do with it. Please don't judge others cause you were there once for different reasons. Just represent strongman the best you can. I have known many people over the years who used steroids and none that I can think of would I consider cowardly. One even saved my life in a heroic fashion. Brother just lift have fun and look how far you have gone and where you will be Lord willing on another five years. A gentle answer can accomplish more than a rant. I do understand your frustration. Its not fair to compete in events where guys are using steroids. But its fun when I can beat them regardless. And if you or I can help them get off of the juice how cool is that. Sorry for the rambling
                I liked this reply. I constantly remind those on either side of the fence that we share so much. The biggest thing we share should always be our passion to lift. Gerrard et al may well feel as strongly as they do on drugs but if we were to share a gym I'd spot them. I'd urge him on for another rep. I'd be the one shouting 'lift it you tart' and grinning. I'd slap his back and help pick his knackered ass off of the floor if need be. I'd hope he's do the same. Heck he can come train here if he wants.

                Comment


                • #28
                  This thread took a surprisingly constructive turn; I was afraid it was going to get out of hand! Well done gentlemen.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by Steve Gardener View Post

                    I liked this reply. I constantly remind those on either side of the fence that we share so much. The biggest thing we share should always be our passion to lift. Gerrard et al may well feel as strongly as they do on drugs but if we were to share a gym I'd spot them. I'd urge him on for another rep. I'd be the one shouting 'lift it you tart' and grinning. I'd slap his back and help pick his knackered ass off of the floor if need be. I'd hope he's do the same. Heck he can come train here if he wants.
                    Steve:

                    I am sorry to say I do not share your sentiments. You seem to be assuming that there is something to be equally criticized on either side of the 'fence'. The reality is that there is only one world, one society and one iron game. If there was a place that all of these people could go who are ruining things for everybody else and just get on with it without dragging other people down I would be tempted to say let them do so. The reality is that this place only exists on the other side of eternity and while we Christians are here our job is to warn people about the consequences of their behavior (both temporal and eternal).

                    Those who are responsible members of society will always try to intervene for the common good, and that is all I have ever done. People have gotten in my way and I have had to deal with them in ways that they may not have appreciated very much but woe to them for underestimating the power of good and trying to oppose it.

                    The reality is that whether or not I had discussed my past or my Christian faith in the article you refer to on a family history website (which was initially published in the local newspaper after I had successfully competed at national level in Bodybuilding,Powerlifting, Strongman and Olympic Lifting over an 8 year period) it would have been published anyway. I could have used it purely to self promote but instead I talked about things in my life that I was actually pretty ashamed of. The primary aim of the article was to try to get some help with starting a gym where I was willing to provide coaching free of charge (and I later had the opportunity to do so in the basement of the Church).

                    The guy who interviewed me warned me not to say too much about the issues in question because people would probably try to use it against me (he was totally right). My own feeling is that we are all human and maybe people could benefit from hearing about my experiences. For this reason I was willing to suck it up regarding people trying to drag me through the muck for the benefit of the greater good. But what I will not have is people trying to misrepresent me as a troublemaker or assign any other malevolent intentions to me.

                    The information I have gained about your own views and behavior on the drug issues is very accurate. You came across as a great admirer of Paul Borresson at Bodypower and as far as I am concerned he epitomizes the self destructive nature of the drug culture both in sport and in general. I had better not say where the rest of my information came from.

                    We do not need any more devil's advocates in the iron game trying to discredit the sincere views of those who have been there and done it without drugs and/or are their rehabilitated victims. You are certainly a knowledgeable person and I am sure that if your heart was in the right place you could make a positive difference. I am sure you are totally aware of the scale of the steroid problems now. Bad role models and easy access have meant that these drugs are being increasingly abused by teenagers and the only sensible way forward is to speak out strongly against their use.

                    One final point I would make is to clarify what 'judging' people actually means biblically. Many people assume it refers to criticizing bad behavior or warning people of the consequences of such. The truth is that the kind of judging Christians must avoid is that which is reserved for God only: namely stating categorically a person's final and unavoidable eternal destiny and making statements about their fundamental character as opposed to their temporal actions (which again is only known to God). It is actually totally required of Christians to try to influence others in a positive way and point out instances of law breaking and corruption. That is no different from what the prophets and Jesus were doing all of the time, which was directed toward the good of humanity and our ultimate salvation.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Thank you for that.

                      Paul Borreson was surprisingly helpful to Muscle Mob magazine and, of course very open on PED use. He was less so on his recreational drug use. That was what killed him. Even his back injury was down to throwing himself out of a window while high. Essentially, much like another roid 'guru' in the UK (and friend) Mick Hart they both had / have BiPolar issues. I remember, as I said above, making the point about making your own choices and educating yourself. If you choose to cherry pick from that conversation what suits your views then it's gonna be as pro-roids as you might like. It's also worth pointing out that you was the only person to ask all weekend. In fact EVER of me at Bodypower. You wasn't, I think aware, that I'd 'admitted' use previously nor that I'd be so honest. I think your planned intention had been to ask me and hope I'd back up what you'd told the lad you'd brought over. Strangely enough had you spoken to any of the more obvious users (pro-bodybuilders at the show) they'd have been more likely to have spoken as you might have hoped. Daft as that might seem it doesn't serve them well to speak openly about drugs.

                      As for who told you what. Doesn't matter. I know what went on at the Whey Gym and it's not as you inferred. On the other hand it wasn't hidden. We had, as you know, all levels of athletes and that included competing and non-competing and those that used and those that did not. Drugs were not pushed on those not using so that they might use. Did we have a sharps bin - yes. Did we discuss use? Yes. Was drugs pushed upon non-users? No. The gym I use now, as it seems is the case with a LOT of south Wales gyms, seems to have a great deal of users in it. You live close enough to know it's prevalence here in the valleys.

                      I'm not at all religeous. As much as a choice for me as your faith is for you. But I do find myself, purely from a training point of view, looking around and asking why some 'use'. Strange as it may seem when I choose to act as I do here, I see what I now (given my own age) see as very young and not at all trained to a half decent level groups of young lads (and a few women) not doing half of what they need to do right (training, food and so on) before grabbing as syringe. No time under their belts, not fully developed and so on. It's been argued that outside our view of the sport there is a greater influence from the media (toned and airbrushed bodies) and the use of recreational drugs than there might be from me or you as role models. In fact knowing the numbers of circulations of bodybuilding magazines against gym users I'd say 10% read about these 'enhanced' would be heroes. Here in Wales lads are more likely to use drugs for Rugby than they are strongman. We're on the wrong site for that. In the US it'll be baseball and profootball. Why? Money and fame. And unless you're a Mr O you aren't getting much of either of those as a bodybuilder. Heck unless you're a Pudz you're not getting much of those as a strongman either. Certainly not even close to a second rate baseball player or soccer player.

                      I think all of that has a far, far greater influence on PED use than any muscle mag. In fact I'll go so far as to say the two-faced aspect of pointing an accusing finger at bobuilders and the Iron Game is annoying. From hard drinking and smoking Fleet street reporters of old (70's and 80's) reporting on drug use (irony or what) to woman getting toxins injected (botox) and operations to change how they look over someone actually working out... well bugger me.In Gloucester one lad, competing as a drug free powerlifter, sold weed, resin and coke. So he doesn't use steroids and is 'drug free' but gets off his tits and sells to others to do the same and is 'drug free'. And that is a reflection of what we deal with from outside the Iron Game. My mum would be disappointed in my use of steroids - drinks every night (there's more but...), my brother Mike once declared 'I'm disappointed'... he's a recovering Heroin addict. My daughter has been a teenager and done teenage things yet looked aghast on asking me about steroids. One forum member once stated his mates were still rubbing the coke from their noses and one asked about steroid use and looked disappointed at their mate. And that's the society we live in. We will look aghast and act appalled at each other here. We we say how awful it is etc etc and then not look outside our own little Iron bubble at those pointing at us.

                      As for you having a sincere view. In your case - yes. You'd like to see ALL of the sport drug free. I think it's unlikely and that's a sincerely held view. What I often see is the mis-quoted facts and figures.Even now it's still argued that roids kill and yet roids in and of themselves have yet to be listed on a coroners report as the factor in an athletes death here in the UK.

                      So you'll have to excuse my being honest, open and truthful and yet I'm still not telling you to go jab a pin in your arse.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        I think anyone that knew Paul even a little bit would tell you that he had his demons and that they had little to do wit his bodybuilding lifestyle. Many years ago he wrote an article in Muscle News (as I think it was back then) regarding his set point theory - we had a series of correspondence about this (now sadly lost), and although it was clear how much gear would help he went out of his way to explain how he would go about it for the 'natural' athlete and I learned a lot from that. I think the fact we were from the same area made him open up a little.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by Steve Gardener View Post
                          Thank you for that.

                          Paul Borreson was surprisingly helpful to Muscle Mob magazine and, of course very open on PED use. He was less so on his recreational drug use. That was what killed him. Even his back injury was down to throwing himself out of a window while high. Essentially, much like another roid 'guru' in the UK (and friend) Mick Hart they both had / have BiPolar issues. I remember, as I said above, making the point about making your own choices and educating yourself. If you choose to cherry pick from that conversation what suits your views then it's gonna be as pro-roids as you might like. It's also worth pointing out that you was the only person to ask all weekend. In fact EVER of me at Bodypower. You wasn't, I think aware, that I'd 'admitted' use previously nor that I'd be so honest. I think your planned intention had been to ask me and hope I'd back up what you'd told the lad you'd brought over. Strangely enough had you spoken to any of the more obvious users (pro-bodybuilders at the show) they'd have been more likely to have spoken as you might have hoped. Daft as that might seem it doesn't serve them well to speak openly about drugs.

                          As for who told you what. Doesn't matter. I know what went on at the Whey Gym and it's not as you inferred. On the other hand it wasn't hidden. We had, as you know, all levels of athletes and that included competing and non-competing and those that used and those that did not. Drugs were not pushed on those not using so that they might use. Did we have a sharps bin - yes. Did we discuss use? Yes. Was drugs pushed upon non-users? No. The gym I use now, as it seems is the case with a LOT of south Wales gyms, seems to have a great deal of users in it. You live close enough to know it's prevalence here in the valleys.

                          I'm not at all religeous. As much as a choice for me as your faith is for you. But I do find myself, purely from a training point of view, looking around and asking why some 'use'. Strange as it may seem when I choose to act as I do here, I see what I now (given my own age) see as very young and not at all trained to a half decent level groups of young lads (and a few women) not doing half of what they need to do right (training, food and so on) before grabbing as syringe. No time under their belts, not fully developed and so on. It's been argued that outside our view of the sport there is a greater influence from the media (toned and airbrushed bodies) and the use of recreational drugs than there might be from me or you as role models. In fact knowing the numbers of circulations of bodybuilding magazines against gym users I'd say 10% read about these 'enhanced' would be heroes. Here in Wales lads are more likely to use drugs for Rugby than they are strongman. We're on the wrong site for that. In the US it'll be baseball and profootball. Why? Money and fame. And unless you're a Mr O you aren't getting much of either of those as a bodybuilder. Heck unless you're a Pudz you're not getting much of those as a strongman either. Certainly not even close to a second rate baseball player or soccer player.

                          I think all of that has a far, far greater influence on PED use than any muscle mag. In fact I'll go so far as to say the two-faced aspect of pointing an accusing finger at bobuilders and the Iron Game is annoying. From hard drinking and smoking Fleet street reporters of old (70's and 80's) reporting on drug use (irony or what) to woman getting toxins injected (botox) and operations to change how they look over someone actually working out... well bugger me.In Gloucester one lad, competing as a drug free powerlifter, sold weed, resin and coke. So he doesn't use steroids and is 'drug free' but gets off his tits and sells to others to do the same and is 'drug free'. And that is a reflection of what we deal with from outside the Iron Game. My mum would be disappointed in my use of steroids - drinks every night (there's more but...), my brother Mike once declared 'I'm disappointed'... he's a recovering Heroin addict. My daughter has been a teenager and done teenage things yet looked aghast on asking me about steroids. One forum member once stated his mates were still rubbing the coke from their noses and one asked about steroid use and looked disappointed at their mate. And that's the society we live in. We will look aghast and act appalled at each other here. We we say how awful it is etc etc and then not look outside our own little Iron bubble at those pointing at us.

                          As for you having a sincere view. In your case - yes. You'd like to see ALL of the sport drug free. I think it's unlikely and that's a sincerely held view. What I often see is the mis-quoted facts and figures.Even now it's still argued that roids kill and yet roids in and of themselves have yet to be listed on a coroners report as the factor in an athletes death here in the UK.

                          So you'll have to excuse my being honest, open and truthful and yet I'm still not telling you to go jab a pin in your arse.
                          Just to clarify: It was actually Tom Balchin who was discussing Paul Borresson with you whilst I and my pupil were standing aside. All I am saying is that you came across as an admirer of somebody who followed the path of self destruction by using a number of drugs, including steroids. It is no coincidence that another famous 'guru', Dan Duchaine, had similar issues with other 'recreational' drugs. The use of non medical drugs usually emanates from a mindset where the individual feels they lack the resources to face reality, be happy or fulfill their goals etc. It is this mindset that the Bible clearly refutes. St Paul (a man who had his own history of bad behavior) stated "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" (Philippians 4:13). The void that these people are trying to fill is actually spiritual and in resorting to drug abuse they are only further emptying themselves.
                          As I said before, I would rather not reveal the source of my information regarding the goings on at the Whey Gym. By your own admission above you have stated that you were willing to tolerate drug use on the premises. I would say it was not only their use that you were tolerating. In other words drugs were available to people there and it is most likely that there was no need for the vendors to 'push' them given that certain high profile users were promoting them so effectively.
                          The reason we discuss drugs in the iron game here is because we happen to be part of the said 'game'. If we were a baseball or American football forum we would be discussing the issues in those respective sports. I have no interest in creating more bad publicity for my own sports, but do have a clear interest in following the lead of those activities which have instituted responsible governing bodies and effective drug control policies.
                          I don't think that your comments about heroin and other drugs are really helpful here. They are only lame attempts to play down your own involvement in the drug trade. The reason people have such disdain for PED's is because it is a natural thing to respect strength. You only have to look at the history of stone lifting to see that there was a good deal of respect given to the strong men of a community. People who are using drugs to enhance their strength are tricking the public and nobody likes to be a fool. Conversely the other drugs you discuss usually show up on a person as causing weakness and social exclusion: a junkie has got nobody fooled.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            I'll take your comment about Tom as a given. Maybe you've a better memory than me. Did I come across as an admirer of Paul's self destructive habits, or as ios made clear in my quote, as someone who could have been good for the game and who's been helpful to me? Did I admire his honesty? Or him getting off his tits??

                            Everything else you've stated is an opinion. I agree with you in part about the filling of voids with drugs - esp in the case of 3 gurus I know or knew. ALL have or had issues. As for discussing... yep we are. But you've suggested I'm not helping where as I think without my input your comments would be a little one sided. These forums used to be called 'discussion boards' - so people debate and discuss. Not 'Iron Game Soap Box's'.

                            My reasoning for mentioning other drugs is clear. It says why. Be that you don't like me using them as examples is neither here nor there. I'm not over keen on your use of religion in a lifting forum. I'll just have to tolerate it. What was your motivation in using those you listed as having tried?

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                            • #34
                              Just curious: What do you guys think of therapeutic use exemptions (TUE) and hormone replacement therapy (HRT)?

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                              • #35
                                I think in a few years, once people have got used to HRT (increasingly common), the stigma of steroid use in sports will vanish.

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                                • #36
                                  Steve mentioned references to Religion on a lifting forum - perhaps steroid users are forced to use steroids to make up for the fact they do not have an omnipotent God Dude helping them out?

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                                  • #37
                                    For me, it's an issue of attitude. Like I said before, opium can be beneficial to someone in traumatic pain. But it's easily abused. I view anabolic steroids in the same way. Yes, some men NEED extra testosterone. Note the word need. And in such cases they have a prescription from a doctor and that doctor closely monitors their health. But when a person takes a drug for the sole purpose of increasing their strength, this is drug abuse. They do not NEED this drug. They can be strong without it. And they put their health in jeopardy to achieve this goal. Will they die or suffer organ damage with 100% certainty? Of course not. In the same way I seem to have avoided any serious damage from my many years of intense drug abuse. I do view a habitual steroid user as a junkie. They seek fulfillment in something that is potentially harmful and that they certainly do not need. Some may argue that you could never achieve what is possible when using steroids. To this I have one reply. In my 4 years of sobriety, I have found not one thing that so thoroughly numbed my mind to the pain I felt like heroin did. Everything else pales in comparison. But that is the case because it is not a natural feeling. And do you know what? That's just the way it is. It took me a very long time to accept that and come to peace with it. And so, in that same way, steroid junkies must accept that perhaps man was not destined to lift 1000+lbs off the floor. In the interest of their own health and promoting it to others, perhaps they must forego such things. This attitude, as I said, of brazen drug use, and acceptance of it, is a mockery of every struggle I have had to overcome on my long painful journey to sobriety. It is a slap in the face. And so everything I have written in this post is coming from a place of deep hurt, spawned from 15 years of slavery to an intangible demon. Drug abuse is wrong. There is no opinion on the matter. And any drug, legal or not, is capable of being abused. Strength is incongruous with such behavior. A coward can be brave in certain aspects of life. I have never been timid or shy, as this post certainly revealed. But I was a coward in the sense that I feared living my life without the crutch of narcotics. And so, true bravery would be traveling the road of strength on your own merits, without polluting you body with filth.

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                                    • #38
                                      It is, as you've said Ian, sometimes switching from one thing to another. All too often just the dedicated to training get looked at in a strange enough way never mind throwing PED's into the mix. The same might be said of those with (whatever works for them obviously) a bent for sky gods. Just as much someone rubbing a rabbits foot. We anchor ourselves with what works for us. It's how we're judged that seems to be an issue.

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                                      • #39
                                        It’s all about life choices in this subject and will always be that way. Guys who have used hard-core drugs have some making it out the other end and some not...im sure many people reading these posts that don’t post can tell a story or two..(I Lost many good friends to hard-core drug use back in the 1990’s)…I think putting labels on people does not help...Ian and Gerhard you both make your choice to condemn Steroid use which is commendable(your not the only ones)…but you both dabbled with the devil yourselves and maybe are looking to redeem yourselves a little with your past weakness...which is good for the soul.

                                        You both have shown in you writings that you want to be involved in testing athletes for PEDS and running clean shows. More power to you..I run shows and I know who’s on and off...those who are clean still want to compete regardless of the other players and that’s there choice.... It mostly still remains a banging of the head on a brick wall exercise if you expect young men to even listen to you or me as there ears are blocked by Ego wax…Life choices…from my experience just do what you do within your circle of like minded people and you will breeze through life.

                                        Randall ..HRT has become popular with the 50+ set with many if they can afford it heading down the human growth path and others employing test to help stabilize their diminishing levels.
                                        ..Are they cowards ? no..just trying to keep Barry White on the play list…along with other benefits…there money and there choice.

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                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by Bill Lyndon View Post
                                          You both have shown in you writings that you want to be involved in testing athletes for PEDS and running clean shows. More power to you..I run shows and I know who’s on and off...those who are clean still want to compete regardless of the other players and that’s there choice.... It mostly still remains a banging of the head on a brick wall exercise if you expect young men to even listen to you or me as there ears are blocked by Ego wax…Life choices…from my experience just do what you do within your circle of like minded people and you will breeze through life.
                                          Something I said that Gerrard is to be commended for previously. Set in place that which is needed and do what one can do get the ball rolling the way you want.

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